ECT Oikonomia (dispensation/stewardship) of Grace

[tetelestai]

House management is also an acceptable meaning of the word.

God has one manager working for Him at a time.

Moses was God's old appointed manager, as His chosen dispenser of Law.

Paul, His chosen dispenser of the Gospel of grace and of Christ according to the revealing of the secret, is still the manager because we're still in the dispensation of grace.

To seek to follow any aspect of the Law as a means of salvation or as a rule of life is to follow the old manager. It denies God's grace, telling Him you know better than He does how to manage your affairs.

If you understood the difference between the Old Covenant and New Covenant, and didn't deny the New Covenant, you wouldn't be so confused.

to the revealing of the secret

You're also very confused about Paul.

(Matt 13:35 ) ... I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Can you tell us some of the secrets Jesus revealed?

 

[Nick M]

Great, so then we are both in agreement that Paul's "dispensation" ended when he died, correct?

As has been pointed out time and time again... that is not a period of time...it a a job given to Paul... and died with him.

So you agree with the opening post. Excellent. :thumb:

I missed the part where you tell us his job.

 

[Right Divider]

You're committing a word fallacy. A compound word may or may not reflect the meaning of the original components. The term "laptop" is a compound word, but its meaning is not derived from the components of the original words. In this case, it does not refer to the skin and any clothing that may cover the top half of your legs when seated.

What bold ignorance on your part; right here on display for all to see!

The word LAPTOP indeed DOES reflect the meaning of the original words or it would make NO SENSE at all. A LAPTOP is a small computer that sits ON TOP OF YOUR LAP.

THAT is where the term comes from and it means what it says, just like HOUSE-LAW.

Again, meaning comes from context and usage.

Indeed!

Which brings us back to the original point. You cannot simply say that Jesus uses X word in a particular way in one context, and thus that meaning must transfer to all uses of the word. That's a fallacy, too.

This is why we have Lexicons and why we must do proper exegesis, something you have not done because of this fallacy.

You've proven that we can not take what you say seriously; GOOD WORK!

 

[Right Divider]

If you understood the difference between the Old Covenant and New Covenant, and didn't deny the New Covenant, you wouldn't be so confused.

You're also very confused about Paul.
(Matt 13:35 ) ... I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Can you tell us some of the secrets Jesus revealed?

Can you tell us WHEN Jesus uttered these thing?

 

[tetelestai]

A LAPTOP is a small computer that sits ON TOP OF YOUR LAP.

You can't be this dense.

 

[tetelestai]

Can you tell us WHEN Jesus uttered these thing?

Read the first part of the verse

(Matt 13:35) So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:....

Like I have been trying to tell you. The only time OT prophecies are quoted in the NT is because they were fulfilled.

The prophecy from the OT is then quoted:

"I will open my mouth in parables,
I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world."

So, the word "will" doesn't mean it's a yet future fulfillment. It was fulfilled.

This is where you Dispies make your mistakes. You take OT prophecies that were given in the future tense, then apply them to the yet future, when NT writers quote the prophecies from the OT.

 

[Right Divider]

You can't be this dense.

It means what is says. Instead of being stupid, why don't you explain what is wrong with what I said.

That is EXACTLY how the term LAPTOP came into being.

 

[Right Divider]

Read the first part of the verse

(Matt 13:35) So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:....

Like I have been trying to tell you. The only time OT prophecies are quoted in the NT is because they were fulfilled.

The prophecy from the OT is then quoted:

"I will open my mouth in parables,
I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world."

So, the word "will" doesn't mean it's a yet future fulfillment. It was fulfilled.

This is where you Dispies make your mistakes. You take OT prophecies that were given in the future tense, then apply them to the yet future, when NT writers quote the prophecies from the OT.

Was this before or after the persecution in Acts 4?

 

[steko]

(Matt 13:35 ) ... I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Can you tell us some of the secrets Jesus revealed?

Do you believe that GOD lifts OT Scripture out of its context to say something opposite from what it says originally?

Psa 78:1 Maschil of Asaph. Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
Psa 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
Psa 78:3 Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.
Psa 78:4 We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.
Psa 78:5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:
Psa 78:70 He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:
Psa 78:71 From following the ewes great with young he brought him to feed Jacob his people, and Israel his inheritance.

 

[tetelestai]

Was this before or after the persecution in Acts 4?

Stephen was the first to be killed.

No Disciple was persecuted before the cross.

That's what I meant.

So, when Jesus sent them out in Matt 10, the persecutions didn't begin until after the cross, and the killings and trials didn't begin until Stephen.

Now, please tell us the secret things Jesus uttered?

 

[tetelestai]

Do you believe that GOD lifts OT Scripture out of its context to say something opposite from what it says originally?

No.

I believe the NT writers quoted the OT prophecies to show that they were fulfilled.

 

[Right Divider]

Stephen was the first to be killed.

No Disciple was persecuted before the cross.

That's what I meant.

So, when Jesus sent them out in Matt 10, the persecutions didn't begin until after the cross, and the killings and trials didn't begin until Stephen.

Now, please tell us the secret things Jesus uttered?

You tell us.... I can see that you ASSUME that these are the SAME things that God revealed to Paul. They are not.

 

[tetelestai]

You tell us.... I can see that you ASSUME that these are the SAME things that God revealed to Paul. They are not.

(Matt 13:11) He replied, "Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

Compare to what Paul said:

(Rom 16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

 

[revpete]

Well refuted!

 

[themuzicman]

House management is also an acceptable meaning of the word.

That is ONE POSSIBLE meaning. That doesn't mean that this one possibility fits into every context. Simply insisting that this meaning MUST be accepted in every context because Jesus used it this way is an exegetical fallacy.

 

[themuzicman]

What bold ignorance on your part; right here on display for all to see!

The word LAPTOP indeed DOES reflect the meaning of the original words or it would make NO SENSE at all. A LAPTOP is a small computer that sits ON TOP OF YOUR LAP.

Notice that "laptop" does not include anything about a computer. If you were to apply your logic consistently, you'd have to conclude that 'laptop" has nothing to do with computers.

The fact that you lack the ability to acknowledge this simple fact only exposes your inability to do proper exegesis.

 

[way 2 go]

Key word: CAN. It doesn't necessarily carry that meaning in every context. This is the source of your error. You've assumed that the meaning when Jesus said it must be the same as when Paul uses it.

Until you can resolve this error, you're not going to have a point.

Notice that "laptop" does not include anything about a computer. If you were to apply your logic consistently, you'd have to conclude that 'laptop" has nothing to do with computers.

The fact that you lack the ability to acknowledge this simple fact only exposes your inability to do proper exegesis.

show us the different meanings of the word stewardship in these 2 verses.

Luk 16:2 And he called him and said to him, What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you may no longer be steward.

Eph 3:2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,

 

[musterion]

That is ONE POSSIBLE meaning. That doesn't mean that this one possibility fits into every context. Simply insisting that this meaning MUST be accepted in every context because Jesus used it this way is an exegetical fallacy.

http://biblehub.com/greek/3623.htm

Stop crying. Tam and others have it right, you don't. Paul is God's sole appointed manager/administrator/steward of the revelation of this dispensation of grace. He alone claimed to be; no other apostle did because they weren't. Paul exalted that office; no one else did because they hadn't been given it.

 

[Interplanner]

http://biblehub.com/greek/3623.htm

Stop crying. Tam and others have it right, you don't. Paul is God's sole appointed manager/administrator/steward of the revelation of this dispensation of grace. He alone claimed to be; no other apostle did because they weren't. Paul exalted that office; no one else did because they hadn't been given it.

I think I can help support this final point by noticing a couple things about Rom 16's finale on this. It was indeed God who already had the grace of the Gospel in OT Scripture. It was him alone who un-hid this at his chosen time--the launch of the Christian body.

2nd, it is very important to see the word choice about how this is disclosed. There is an administrative term used 'a royal order' but it is not verbal. God doesn't just say "(a doctrine)" this time--although it will be expressed at various passages Paul will write. He makes it happen. The nations are responding and becoming Christians. They are doing so because the trappings of Judaism are out of the way. The righteousness of God is now known to be transfered direct from Christ instead of 'through the Law.' It is the righteousness that is 'apart from Law' (as an administrative vehicle), Rom 3:21.

Judaism always knew there would be a mission to the nations, but they thought it was through the Law. In the intertestament period, you see (based on how strict Ezra and Nehemiah modeled) that this is where they thought everything was going; an age of Law was ahead and leaders in Judaism would be its teachers and missionaries.

So the most daring, or surprising, statement of Paul is Eph 3:5 when he says that everything promised to happen to Israel was finding its fulfilment 'through the Gospel.' That's the exact spot where Judaism would have thought 'through the Law.'

[sorry there is more italicized than I wanted and I can't fix it]

 

[themuzicman]

http://biblehub.com/greek/3623.htm

Stop crying. Tam and others have it right, you don't. Paul is God's sole appointed manager/administrator/steward of the revelation of this dispensation of grace. He alone claimed to be; no other apostle did because they weren't. Paul exalted that office; no one else did because they hadn't been given it.

Maybe you should try some sources that aren't baised towards you.

http://unbound.biola.edu/index.cfm?...=greek&search_type=entry&entry_word=οικονομια

management of a household; task, work, responsibility; (divine) plan (EPH.1:10; 3:9; 1TI.1:4)

And maybe you should stop crying about your lack of exegetical ability.