No one Needs to be Predestinated, Because...

[Robert Pate]

God has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ.

"And all things are of God, who has RECONCILED US TO HIMSELF BY JESUS CHRIST" 2 Corinthians 5:18

"To wit that God was in Christ, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

"And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF" Colossians 1:20.

"And you that were some times alienated in your mind by wicked works, YET NOW HAS HE RECONCILED" Colossians 1:21.

Predestination is a false gospel and doctrine conceived by the mind of a heretic back in the 1500's. John Calvin was only 25 years old and fresh out of the Catholic church when he came up with the doctrine of predestination. Not exactly a scholar.

The word predestination only appears in the bible four times. There is no scripture anywhere in the bible about anyone being predestinated to eternal life. This is how the word is used.

"Predestinated us into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 1:5.
"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to his purpose" Ephesians 1:11.
"Predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29.
"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called" Romans 8:30.

The doctrine of predestination makes God an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant. How can anyone love or have faith in a God that predestinates billions to hell before they are born? The answer is they can't, it is not humanly possible.

We have been reconciled unto God by the doing and the dying of Jesus.

Jesus, in our name and on our behalf has reconciled us and the world unto God. No predestination or religion needed. Jesus, in our name and on our behalf has offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law, Matthew 5:18. The law has been fulfilled.

Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2.

The Gospel not predestination is the power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16

In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed by Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. This is why no one needs to be predestinated.

 

[Robert Pate]

Calvinism is an attempt by Satan to subvert the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Calvinism was instituted by John Calvin after Martin Luther discovered the doctrine of justification by faith apart from the works of the law. This was a sever blow to the Catholic church. If we are justified by faith alone, then there is no need for any kind of a religion especially the oppressive Catholic religion. Satan didn't waste any time in coming up with another demonic doctrine that would draw people away from Christ and his Gospel.

Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Those that are saved live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. We believe that Jesus saves and that he saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25. Any doctrine that teaches God predestinates people to hell before they are born is of the devil. Any doctrine that teaches that Jesus only atoned for some sins, but not all sins is demonic.

Calvinism much like Catholicism does not build faith in God and in his Son Jesus Christ. What it does is it destroys it. No one will enter heaven without faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. Religion does not have it to offer, what it does offer is lies, heresies, and confusion.

 

[ttruscott]

"Predestinated us into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 1:5.
"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to his purpose" Ephesians 1:11.
"Predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29.
"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called" Romans 8:30.

None of these things can possibly ever apply to anyone but an elect. And true, it never says HE predestined us to eternal life BECAUSE HE never DID predestinate anyone's fate to be eternal life,
BUT
after all people made in HIS image who chose to accept HIS offer of election and salvation who then became sinners sent to earth, HE did indeed predestinate their LIVES to conform to the fulfillment of HIS promises to them...just as the four verses claim.

 

[ttruscott]

Any doctrine that teaches God predestinates people to hell before they are born is of the devil.

Of course you are right! But you confuse a life predestined to fulfill salvation in someone with a predestination of a life to hell.

GOD has never predestined anyone's fate to be hell.
Every person created in HIS image has chosen their own fate in heaven or hell by their free will.
Those who chose their fate (end result of life) to be in HIS heavenly marriage BUT then chose to sin, were given lives predestined to ensure they are indeed brought to salvation in Christ able to enter the heavenly marriage at last. This predestination of their lives (not their fates) to fulfill HIS promise of salvation to them included a predestination of their lives to be predestined into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 1:5, to being predestined according to his purpose Ephesians 1:11 (of their redemption) to being predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29. and to be called by HIM to salvation, Romans 8:30,

but never, at no time was anyone ever predestined to end hell or in heaven as their eternal fate before they chose by their free will which they wanted. Predestining all to heaven is in fact to predestine some to hell. The only way this is not true is if HE chose those who accepted HIS deity and put their faith in the salvation found in HIS Son, and elected them to be predestined.

IF our election and HIS predestination of us WAS NOT BASED UPON our own choices then HIS NOT predestining some indeed was to predestine them to hell, a Satanic doctrine enjoyed by Calvinism. To be free of the charge of double predestination, all of our election and predestination had to have been based upon what we chose by our own free will.

How do I know predestination of our lives to be saved is based upon our own free will choices? Because some people are NOT predestined to be saved for the heavenly marriage and since YHWH, the GOD who is perfect LOVE, were to choose any one to be HIS bride HE would chose everyone!!! That some are outside of HIS salvation is proof HE did not choose for them to be outside HIS love as HE is love and would leave no one out of HIS salvation which means they rejected HIS salvation by their own free will which HE promised HE would never go against.

 

[Robert Pate]

Of course you are right! But you confuse a life predestined to fulfill salvation in someone with a predestination of a life to hell.

GOD has never predestined anyone's fate to be hell.
Every person created in HIS image has chosen their own fate in heaven or hell by their free will.
Those who chose their fate (end result of life) to be in HIS heavenly marriage BUT then chose to sin, were given lives predestined to ensure they are indeed brought to salvation in Christ able to enter the heavenly marriage at last. This predestination of their lives (not their fates) to fulfill HIS promise of salvation to them included a predestination of their lives to be predestined into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 1:5, to being predestined according to his purpose Ephesians 1:11 (of their redemption) to being predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29. and to be called by HIM to salvation, Romans 8:30,

but never, at no time was anyone ever predestined to end hell or in heaven as their eternal fate before they chose by their free will which they wanted. Predestining all to heaven is in fact to predestine some to hell. The only way this is not true is if HE chose those who accepted HIS deity and put their faith in the salvation found in HIS Son, and elected them to be predestined.

IF our election and HIS predestination of us WAS NOT BASED UPON our own choices then HIS NOT predestining some indeed was to predestine them to hell, a Satanic doctrine enjoyed by Calvinism. To be free of the charge of double predestination, all of our election and predestination had to have been based upon what we chose by our own free will.

How do I know predestination of our lives to be saved is based upon our own free will choices? Because some people are NOT predestined to be saved for the heavenly marriage and since YHWH, the GOD who is perfect LOVE, were to choose any one to be HIS bride HE would chose everyone!!! That some are outside of HIS salvation is proof HE did not choose for them to be outside HIS love as HE is love and would leave no one out of HIS salvation which means they rejected HIS salvation by their own free will which HE promised HE would never go against.

I agree with most of what you are saying. God could force all to believe on his Son Jesus Christ if that is what he wanted to do. But that would not bring glory to himself or to his Son Jesus Christ. What brings glory to God and to Jesus is when a sinner by his own free will accepts Christ as his savior and repents. Even the angels in heaven rejoice when this happens, Luke 15:10.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Robert Pate]

None of these things can possibly ever apply to anyone but an elect. And true, it never says HE predestined us to eternal life BECAUSE HE never DID predestinate anyone's fate to be eternal life,
BUT
after all people made in HIS image who chose to accept HIS offer of election and salvation who then became sinners sent to earth, HE did indeed predestinate their LIVES to conform to the fulfillment of HIS promises to them...just as the four verses claim.

All were elected to be saved because Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. There is not one person left out. They are left out because they want to be left out and not because they were excluded. They exclude themselves by rejecting God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by his Son Jesus Christ.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert, yet another thread on the same topic? :AMR:

Asked and answered time and again, for example:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...Christianity&p=5110002&viewfull=1#post5110002

Perhaps I should start a blogging thread and for each and every paragraph in the following:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...or-Predestination/page3&p=4402162#post4402162

I suspect I would get the boot after the third or fourth one.

Get yourself a Wordpress blog set up Robert. They are free you know. Then you can post the same matters time and again versus using bandwidth for substantive discussion to just blog away. People can then subscribe to your blog's feed and read your opinions with no expectation that you will actually stand still long enough to actually be cross-examined about you oddities. I will even add it to my feedly blog reader.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, yet another thread on the same topic? :AMR:

Asked and answered time and again, for example:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...Christianity&p=5110002&viewfull=1#post5110002

Perhaps I should start a blogging thread and for each and every paragraph in the following:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...or-Predestination/page3&p=4402162#post4402162

I suspect I would get the boot after the third or fourth one.

Get yourself a Wordpress blog set up Robert. They are free you know. Then you can post the same matters time and again versus using bandwidth for substantive discussion to just blog away. People can then subscribe to your blog's feed and read your opinions with no expectation that you will actually stand still long enough to actually be cross-examined about you oddities. I will even add it to my feedly blog reader.

AMR

You don't like what I post because it convicts you of your need for Christ. Maybe you should get saved.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

You don't like what I post because it convicts you of your need for Christ. Maybe you should get saved.

What I have an issue with, Robert, is a man who refuses to substantially engage after having started a thread laced with inaccuracies and opinion, violating the duties of the ninth commandment often. Time and again I have made serious effort to respond to your posts substantially only to be met with comments such as what I just quoted. You admit you are posting "articles", so the question remains as to why you do so with no intent to actually subject yourself to discussion about the mere opinions contained in these "articles".

I have often made the offer for you and I to actually correspond via a more restricted venue, such as the One-on-One forum, too. I think such a venue where it is just you and I and no one else to run interference for you, is just the right place for you to present all your arguments that underlie the opinions in your "articles"...if you can. These One-on-Ones require actual effort, however, much more than just starting thread after thread with the usual screeds.

Of course, each and every time you have waved my request off with some vitriolic rationale. It is one thing to refuse such a request for real reasons, but quite another just because you are reluctant to give an answer for that which you hold dear.

So it seems to me you have only one agenda, that is, to post repetitive content saying the same thing as if no one here has any retentive memory of your previously started threads. That you refuse to stand still long enough to actually respond to your interlocutors as substantially as they have to you, indicates to me you are unable to actually defend these "articles". They make for good entertainment and are probably cathartic for whatever eats at you personally, but, as I have suggested, perhaps an actual blog is what is in order for you so that you can pour out online whatever pops into your head.

I suspect you like to occasionally click on the link showing all the threads you have started and rest satisfied with yourself; that you have done a great service in glorifying God with all your words of wisdom. Of course, He whom you are claiming to glorify will wonder where exactly did you take every word captive for His glory (2 Cor. 10:15)? Other saints now in their glory, such as Apollos, will also likely scratch their heads (Acts 18:28) wondering, exactly where is the evidence of vigorous debate? Then again, you refuse to credit Apollos as actually being in his glory at present, so that probably is not a good example, for all the saints are apparently taking dirt naps. :AMR:

Robert, your one-dimensional obsession with all things Calvinistic is telling and sad. You (and I) are rounding third base in our race to the finish line. Why not make that last sprint truly one that glorifies God?

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

What I have an issue with, Robert, is a man who refuses to substantially engage after having started a thread laced with inaccuracies and opinion, violating the duties of the ninth commandment often. Time and again I have made serious effort to respond to your posts substantially only to be met with comments such as what I just quoted. You admit you are posting "articles", so the question remains as to why you do so with no intent to actually subject yourself to discussion about the mere opinions contained in these "articles".

I have often made the offer for you and I to actually correspond via a more restricted venue, such as the One-on-One forum, too. I think such a venue where it is just you and I and no one else to run interference for you, is just the right place for you to present all your arguments that underlie the opinions in your "articles"...if you can. These One-on-Ones require actual effort, however, much more than just starting thread after thread with the usual screeds.

Of course, each and every time you have waved my request off with some vitriolic rationale. It is one thing to refuse such a request for real reasons, but quite another just because you are reluctant to give an answer for that which you hold dear.

So it seems to me you have only one agenda, that is, to post repetitive content saying the same thing as if no one here has any retentive memory of your previously started threads. That you refuse to stand still long enough to actually respond to your interlocutors as substantially as they have to you, indicates to me you are unable to actually defend these "articles". They make for good entertainment and are probably cathartic for whatever eats at you personally, but, as I have suggested, perhaps an actual blog is what is in order for you so that you can pour out online whatever pops into your head.

I suspect you like to occasionally click on the link showing all the threads you have started and rest satisfied with yourself; that you have done a great service in glorifying God with all your words of wisdom. Of course, He whom you are claiming to glorify will wonder where exactly did you take every word captive for His glory (2 Cor. 10:15)? Other saints now in their glory, such as Apollos, will also likely scratch their heads (Acts 18:28) wondering exactly is evidence of vigorous debate? Then again, you refuse to credit Apollos as actually being in his glory at present, so that probably is not a good example, for all the saints are apparently taking dirt naps. :AMR:

Robert, your one-dimensional obsession with all things Calvinistic is telling and sad. You (and I) are rounding third base in our race to the finish line. Why not make that last sprint truly one that glorifies God?

AMR

Everything that you believe is dictated by Calvinism, which I believe to be a false religion.

If you want to debate it will have to be according to what the scriptures say, and not according to what some heretic said back in the 1500's. I can refute everything that you believe with scripture in less than 50 words. Calvinism is the easiest of all religions to refute. The only way that you think you can defend it is with 1000 word smoke screens that doesn't make sense.

Answer this. Does God so love the world that he sent his only begotten Son into the world to redeem the world, so that WHOSOEVER believes on him should not perish? Show me a scripture that you think refutes John 3:16. If you post back a 1000 word smoke screen we are through.

 

[ttruscott]

I agree with most of what you are saying. God could force all to believe on his Son Jesus Christ if that is what he wanted to do. But that would not bring glory to himself or to his Son Jesus Christ. What brings glory to God and to Jesus is when a sinner by his own free will accepts Christ as his savior and repents. Even the angels in heaven rejoice when this happens, Luke 15:10.

Thanks for your response.

GOD gets no glory for letting people choose and then saving those who wanted to join HIS family from the judgements upon the bad choices they have made which made them as evil as Satan ??? Seems glorious to me.

 

[ttruscott]

All were elected to be saved because Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. There is not one person left out. They are left out because they want to be left out and not because they were excluded. They exclude themselves by rejecting God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by his Son Jesus Christ.

Well I understand that many believe this but I know GOD and if HIS loving patience is waiting for someone to repent, HE will never stop waiting! Why does HE stop waiting for a 30 yr old and have him die but another man get's a full 90 years to repent?

IF GOD is love and love is patient, tell me how GOD's patience can end? There is only one way to make this make sense and it starts with the loving holy patience of GOD as real which means they must be beyond HIS patience and HE is unable to save them because if all it takes is to wait for them, HE will wait to the end of eternity to save them because that is who HE is!!

Neither does hell force the belief that HE must have created some to go there as the Calvinists suggest. BUT IF HE gave us the choice and promised to abide by our choice and some chose to put their faith in the idea HE was a false god and a liar and rejected HIS offers of election and salvation, then they would be outside of HIS mercy and patience and they would be eternal enemies He could not save without breaking HIS promise not to force them against their free will, which HE could never do.

No suggesting the blasphemy that HE creates evil people just to go to hell.
No suggesting the blasphemy that HIS loving patience can ever end.
No suggesting the blasphemy of universal salvation.
Only GOD making promises and people accepting them or rejecting them as they chose and then HIM keeping HIS promises.

 

[ttruscott]

... with 1000 word smoke screens that doesn't make sense.

I call such theo-babble myself.

 

[Robert Pate]

Well I understand that many believe this but I know GOD and if HIS loving patience is waiting for someone to repent, HE will never stop waiting! Why does HE stop waiting for a 30 yr old and have him die but another man get's a full 90 years to repent?

IF GOD is love and love is patient, tell me how GOD's patience can end? There is only one way to make this make sense and it starts with the loving holy patience of GOD as real which means they must be beyond HIS patience and HE is unable to save them because if all it takes is to wait for them, HE will wait to the end of eternity to save them because that is who HE is!!

Neither does hell force the belief that HE must have created some to go there as the Calvinists suggest. BUT IF HE gave us the choice and promised to abide by our choice and some chose to put their faith in the idea HE was a false god and a liar and rejected HIS offers of election and salvation, then they would be outside of HIS mercy and patience and they would be eternal enemies He could not save without breaking HIS promise not to force them against their free will, which HE could never do.

No suggesting the blasphemy that HE creates evil people just to go to hell.
No suggesting the blasphemy that HIS loving patience can ever end.
No suggesting the blasphemy of universal salvation.
Only GOD making promises and people accepting them or rejecting them as they chose and then HIM keeping HIS promises.

Most people come to know Jesus as their savior while they are children. I don't know of anyone that has is over 50 years old that has come to know Christ as their savior. The Holy Spirit does not keep calling if they keep rejecting. When the Holy Spirit gives up on them they become reprobates. There are many religious reprobates on the Forum. No one can hear and become convicted of their need for Christ without the Holy Spirit. The Gospel and the Holy Spirit are inseparable. When the Gospel is preached the Holy Spirit is there to convict one of their need for Christ.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Answer this. Does God so love the world that he sent his only begotten Son into the world to redeem the world, so that WHOSOEVER believes on him should not perish? Show me a scripture that you think refutes John 3:16. If you post back a 1000 word smoke screen we are through.

You do not get to set the terms here, Robert, especially when you continue to refuse to actually respond to answers to the same questions:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Elected-Man&p=4634230&viewfull=1#post4634230


AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

You do not get to set the terms here, Robert, especially when you continue to refuse to actually respond to answers to the same questions:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Elected-Man&p=4634230&viewfull=1#post4634230


AMR

You are a sad case. You have rejected salvation by grace through faith and are probably now a religious reprobate that cannot receive truth. Scriptures like John 3:16 cannot be refuted because they are Gospel truth. All that you Calvinist can do is try to change the words. World does not mean world, nor does whosoever mean whosoever. Some how you feel content in doing that.

 

[ttruscott]

Most people come to know Jesus as their savior while they are children. I don't know of anyone that has is over 50 years old that has come to know Christ as their savior. The Holy Spirit does not keep calling if they keep rejecting. When the Holy Spirit gives up on them they become reprobates. There are many religious reprobates on the Forum. No one can hear and become convicted of their need for Christ without the Holy Spirit. The Gospel and the Holy Spirit are inseparable. When the Gospel is preached the Holy Spirit is there to convict one of their need for Christ.

The Holy Spirit gives up on nobody who can be saved if HE did not give up.

Your theology talks all around this impossibility yet you do not look at it directly or tell me how HIS loving patience ends.... To say HE does give up is to say that HIS call was ineffective. I don't think so... The reprobate goats are born condemned already , Jn 3:18, so they will never ever call on His name to fulfill Jn 3:16. GOD knows this and so has never spent one minute waiting for them and as soon as the last of those who can repent do repent the postponed judgement will be brought to fruition.

Answer this. Does God so love the world that he sent his only begotten Son into the world to redeem the world, so that WHOSOEVER believes on him should not perish? Show me a scripture that you think refutes John 3:16. If you post back a 1000 word smoke screen we are through.

I answer this with John 3:18 which I believe refutes your interpretation of Jn 3:16.

​I also believe your interpretation cannot make sense of people being condemned already from the same time the rest are saved already!

 

[Robert Pate]

The Holy Spirit gives up on nobody who can be saved if HE did not give up.

Your theology talks all around this impossibility yet you do not look at it directly or tell me how HIS loving patience ends.... To say HE does give up is to say that HIS call was ineffective. I don't think so... The reprobate goats are born condemned already , Jn 3:18, so they will never ever call on His name to fulfill Jn 3:16. GOD knows this and so has never spent one minute waiting for them and as soon as the last of those who can repent do repent the postponed judgement will be brought to fruition.



I answer this with John 3:18 which I believe refutes your interpretation of Jn 3:16.

​I also believe your interpretation cannot make sense of people being condemned already from the same time the rest are saved already!

To believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is to believe that God is unjust. To believe that God is unjust is to believe that God is a sinner just like you. No one is born a reprobate, they become reprobates by their continual rejection of Christ and his Gospel

The Holy Spirit does give up. How many people do you know that are over 50 and have recently called on Christ to save them? Most people come to Christ as children, before they become religious and go off a different way.