No Longer A Christian
- Thread starter Granite
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PureX
Well-known member
It is for me, at least in part. But it's not so for everyone else, I'm sure. This is one of the ideas that I value, and is one of the experiences that I would attribute to the effect of 'God' in our world. But other people will choose their own ideas to value, and theirs may not be the same as mine. And they may choose not to attribute what they value to 'God'.
We're all "picking and choosing".
I picked and chose God. And I allow Him to guide me into all truth.
There are contradictions in the Bible, aren't there? :think:
A sower went out to sow his seed..... and some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up it withered away, because it lacked moisture... The seed is the word of God..... They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation {testing} fall away.
It seems that this is what has happened to you, as Yeshua said it would happen to you and many others that hear the Word of God. Your name, "granite", now seems very appropo!
Perhaps at a later time, the seed will fall on good ground..... are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it and bring forth fruit with patience.
May the Lord make His face to shine upon you.
It seems that this is what has happened to you, as Yeshua said it would happen to you and many others that hear the Word of God. Your name, "granite", now seems very appropo!
Perhaps at a later time, the seed will fall on good ground..... are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it and bring forth fruit with patience.
May the Lord make His face to shine upon you.
BChristianK
New member
Granite,
You've got a lot of folks giving out advice about what you should do next.
You’ve got zakath pulling up in the atheist welcoming wagon. You’ve got Purex urging you to see God through the plurality of other religions (notwithstanding the fact that he doesn’t think you can know God, so if you did, per chance, see Him, you couldn’t know that you saw HIm, making the prospect of seeing Him mute in the first place), firechyld relativistically hoping you find what’s right for you and Wickwoman encouraging you to let go of the illusions.
Then you have those like OneEyedJack wisely urging you to not throw the baby out with the bathwater, you have Chelice urging you to go be alone for awhile and (great advice by the way) and wisdom from others like Cattyfan, Lighthouse and Sozo.
Could be confusing, if you weren’t already confused enough, right?
Well, as you probably already know, it is awful hard to tell sometimes what is real and what is illusion.
Peter denied Jesus three times, probably feeling disillusioned. John the Baptist had his moments of doubt probably feeling quite a bit disillusioned as well. I think if anyone can understand what they might have been feeling, to feels like to be abandoned by God, or even to doubt in a God, it is you, right now. You’ve gotten alone in solitude to seek God and feel as if you haven’t found Him, you’ve probably read “all the wrong books� and then felt guilty about reading them and then felt guilty about feeling guilty about reading them.
So you don't see God, and don't see how anyone would.
Not knowing what it was like to grow up in church, I can’t imagine what it is like facing the prospect of leaving behind the religion you have grown up in. In one sense there is probably a sense of dread and fear and in another sense there is probably a sense of freedom.
So, basically, I don’t have a great deal of advice, just a couple of verse you might want to think about. You’ve got a myriad of voices to listen to. There are as many books substantiating the archeological evidence of the Old and New Testaments as there are books that point to the inconsistencies. There are as many resources pointing to the unique claims of Christ and Christianity as there are books that show the similarities with other world mythology. There are as many people who display the love of Christ who call themselves Christian as those who act hypocritically.
For example, I know of a guy whose whole church was formed from a neighborhood project to contribute to a local food bank. He didn’t set out to start a church, but after faithfully taking time out of his week to collect the food going door to door in his neighborhood people started asking questions. He started praying for those who asked questions, about the things in their life that they said he could pray about, and all of a sudden He has a church, meeting in his home.
Now, I’ll take you at your word that believing in Jesus hasn’t changed the lives of many of the people you know, but I know a whole neighborhood, and a great deal of grateful people in a town where there was no food bank but now there is enough to go around that were changed by one guy who believed in Jesus, and did it all for His glory.
If you don't personally know anyone who's faith in Christ has changed them, and the lives of others, maybe you should consider the option of being the first person you know who's faith did.
You can choose to listen to Cheliece or Zakath, you can choose to place your trust in the books your elder told you not to read or the countless other books that would contest the validity and accuracy of those books… You’ve got a lot of choices, but what you don’t have is the choice not to choose, for not choosing is to still a choice.
You may well have been brought to a point in your life where you are now at a crossroads and the only thing you can do at this point is choose.
So, as Joshua said:
I hope you choose the Grace and Peace that can be found in Christ Jesus.
You've got a lot of folks giving out advice about what you should do next.
You’ve got zakath pulling up in the atheist welcoming wagon. You’ve got Purex urging you to see God through the plurality of other religions (notwithstanding the fact that he doesn’t think you can know God, so if you did, per chance, see Him, you couldn’t know that you saw HIm, making the prospect of seeing Him mute in the first place), firechyld relativistically hoping you find what’s right for you and Wickwoman encouraging you to let go of the illusions.
Then you have those like OneEyedJack wisely urging you to not throw the baby out with the bathwater, you have Chelice urging you to go be alone for awhile and (great advice by the way) and wisdom from others like Cattyfan, Lighthouse and Sozo.
Could be confusing, if you weren’t already confused enough, right?
Well, as you probably already know, it is awful hard to tell sometimes what is real and what is illusion.
Peter denied Jesus three times, probably feeling disillusioned. John the Baptist had his moments of doubt probably feeling quite a bit disillusioned as well. I think if anyone can understand what they might have been feeling, to feels like to be abandoned by God, or even to doubt in a God, it is you, right now. You’ve gotten alone in solitude to seek God and feel as if you haven’t found Him, you’ve probably read “all the wrong books� and then felt guilty about reading them and then felt guilty about feeling guilty about reading them.
So you don't see God, and don't see how anyone would.
Not knowing what it was like to grow up in church, I can’t imagine what it is like facing the prospect of leaving behind the religion you have grown up in. In one sense there is probably a sense of dread and fear and in another sense there is probably a sense of freedom.
So, basically, I don’t have a great deal of advice, just a couple of verse you might want to think about. You’ve got a myriad of voices to listen to. There are as many books substantiating the archeological evidence of the Old and New Testaments as there are books that point to the inconsistencies. There are as many resources pointing to the unique claims of Christ and Christianity as there are books that show the similarities with other world mythology. There are as many people who display the love of Christ who call themselves Christian as those who act hypocritically.
For example, I know of a guy whose whole church was formed from a neighborhood project to contribute to a local food bank. He didn’t set out to start a church, but after faithfully taking time out of his week to collect the food going door to door in his neighborhood people started asking questions. He started praying for those who asked questions, about the things in their life that they said he could pray about, and all of a sudden He has a church, meeting in his home.
Now, I’ll take you at your word that believing in Jesus hasn’t changed the lives of many of the people you know, but I know a whole neighborhood, and a great deal of grateful people in a town where there was no food bank but now there is enough to go around that were changed by one guy who believed in Jesus, and did it all for His glory.
If you don't personally know anyone who's faith in Christ has changed them, and the lives of others, maybe you should consider the option of being the first person you know who's faith did.
You can choose to listen to Cheliece or Zakath, you can choose to place your trust in the books your elder told you not to read or the countless other books that would contest the validity and accuracy of those books… You’ve got a lot of choices, but what you don’t have is the choice not to choose, for not choosing is to still a choice.
You may well have been brought to a point in your life where you are now at a crossroads and the only thing you can do at this point is choose.
So, as Joshua said:
I hope you choose the Grace and Peace that can be found in Christ Jesus.
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firechyld
New member
You wouldn't be just a tiny bit biased in your judgement of what is and is not "good advice", or "wisdom", would you?
I don't see the point in handing out advice that isn't going to be taken. As you pointed out, there's a lot of different opinions here. I doubt anything I said would solve granite's problem.
I hope he gets through this rough patch, and becomes happy again. That's all. None of us can give him specifics on how to do that... only he can.
So I hope he finds what makes him happy. Maybe that will lead him back to Christianity. I don't know. I just hope that he comes through this alright.
That obviously isn't the brand of advice that you think I should be offering. *shrug* If he wants to hear specifics from me, he'll ask. And the same goes for the rest of you.
Hey Jack.
I did try looking for another church and haven't attended anywhere for a couple months. I have no intentions of going again or even looking. I don't think I could last two minutes inside any church, right about now.
The divorce...maybe it does. It certainly makes you think when you ask for something, pray for something, get what you want, and then have it taken away. The marriage problem is kind of a double whammy. Getting divorced twice: my religion and my wife.
PureX
Well-known member
It's only moot if your goal is to "know" God, and to know that you know God. Once you let go of this insistance on knowing that which can't be known by men except through pretense, you are free to hope, and to wonder, and to trust the good if you so choose. This is called faith.
wickwoman
New member
Dear B Christian K:
Just exactly how do those scholars pouring over those ancient texts, really know what God is saying? Does God have a manner of speaking or language that he commonly uses? Do they know exactly where God was born so they can contrast his dialect to the dialect of others from his geographical region?
I do know that the church fathers were presented with scores of gospel accounts. They chose four, only one of which actually presents Jesus as God. The other three left that part out interestingly.
And, do you think it would matter to me for one instant that some human being thousands of years ago did actually write John about 50 years or so after Jesus' death, and he may have been a person who knew a person who actually knew Jesus? What difference does it make? It's still written by a man, not a god.
The ONLY way to read and believe anything, after investigation of authenticity as to its claims regarding time and place, which has been done, BTW with many of the Nag Hamaddi texts, is to read it for its context. We have no other way to judge what is or isn't from God than to see if it agrees with that which is in us which is a part of God. Otherwise, we are stumbling around like blind men. And, I know that only the highest and the best that we can imagine only begins to scratch the surface of what God could be like.
Just exactly how do those scholars pouring over those ancient texts, really know what God is saying? Does God have a manner of speaking or language that he commonly uses? Do they know exactly where God was born so they can contrast his dialect to the dialect of others from his geographical region?
I do know that the church fathers were presented with scores of gospel accounts. They chose four, only one of which actually presents Jesus as God. The other three left that part out interestingly.
And, do you think it would matter to me for one instant that some human being thousands of years ago did actually write John about 50 years or so after Jesus' death, and he may have been a person who knew a person who actually knew Jesus? What difference does it make? It's still written by a man, not a god.
The ONLY way to read and believe anything, after investigation of authenticity as to its claims regarding time and place, which has been done, BTW with many of the Nag Hamaddi texts, is to read it for its context. We have no other way to judge what is or isn't from God than to see if it agrees with that which is in us which is a part of God. Otherwise, we are stumbling around like blind men. And, I know that only the highest and the best that we can imagine only begins to scratch the surface of what God could be like.
wickwoman
New member
As for righteous judgment, and all the other comments about our fatherly God, I would add, yes it is very loving and responsible to torture your child in a lake of fire for all eternity for playing in the street. Hey! You're a just and loving parent sure! It makes perfect sense!
Seems the punishment is worse than the danger which you seek to protect against. Why you wouldn't just let the child die quickly by a car crash, I don't know.
Seems the punishment is worse than the danger which you seek to protect against. Why you wouldn't just let the child die quickly by a car crash, I don't know.
wickwoman
New member
Re: Plural Religions = Peace?
I have to agree with Purex on this one. Anyway, the Dali Lama does too.
I see all the different religious traditions as paths for the development of inner peace, which is the true foundation of world peace. These ancient traditions come to us as a gift from our common past. Will we continue to cherish it as a gift and hand it over the the future generations as a legacy of our shared desire for peace?
-His Holiness the Dalai Lama
I have to agree with Purex on this one. Anyway, the Dali Lama does too.
I see all the different religious traditions as paths for the development of inner peace, which is the true foundation of world peace. These ancient traditions come to us as a gift from our common past. Will we continue to cherish it as a gift and hand it over the the future generations as a legacy of our shared desire for peace?
-His Holiness the Dalai Lama
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