Well said!
Miss USA says to love the terrorists..
- Thread starter republicanchick
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Well said!
PureX
Well-known member
The thing I find interesting about this argument/discussion is that so few of you seems to realize that we are capable of more than one conclusion at a time.
The question has been asked; would you allow a terrorist to kill you even though Jesus said to love your enemies?
The answer is no, I wouldn't. Not if I could stop them. And yet I also know that Jesus would. And did. So although I would not, I also recognize that in saving myself I've fallen short of perfect love of Christ for my fellow man.
What I would NOT do is glory in my self-defense, or glory in the presumed righteousness of vanquishing my enemy. Because to do that, is CLEARLY to countermand the spirit of Christ.
Does this appear contradictory to you? If so, then I think you are a very weak-minded Christian (whoever you are).
The question has been asked; would you allow a terrorist to kill you even though Jesus said to love your enemies?
The answer is no, I wouldn't. Not if I could stop them. And yet I also know that Jesus would. And did. So although I would not, I also recognize that in saving myself I've fallen short of perfect love of Christ for my fellow man.
What I would NOT do is glory in my self-defense, or glory in the presumed righteousness of vanquishing my enemy. Because to do that, is CLEARLY to countermand the spirit of Christ.
Does this appear contradictory to you? If so, then I think you are a very weak-minded Christian (whoever you are).
Some good points. I am not sure that Jesus would. Jesus had one mission, to seek and save the lost. And yes to die for them. I do not have that mission. I could never have that mission. That mission is reserved for Jesus alone. My mission is to keep the commandments, to fulfill my responsibilities to be on good terms with everyone as far as it depends on me and to spread the gospel. If in fulfilling those missions, it turns out that I need to put myself at risk and die, then so be it. There is no need for anyone to interpret their role as a Christian as an obligation to die for everyone and anyone.
Cheers, Bybee. What bothers me, as well as blocking the road for others, is that this kind of person expects you to think they are superior road users than everyone else for the fact that they follow the rules to the letter or that they go beyond the rules by slowing down, generally stick to speed limits and stop in the middle of a flowing carriageway to let someone pull out of their drive and so hold up 50 other road users for a whole minute when if they had carried on, it would only have taken 15 seconds for the driver who was pulling out of his drive to actually wait for the next gap in traffic. With Christian pacifists, they love to tell you how their attitude is really following Christ and taking him at his word and how everyone else should do the same. But I'm afraid I can't see how it helps anyone and only results in a lot of frustrated people.
PureX
Well-known member
It's not an obligation not to die, it's an obligation not to kill. Like it or not killing a human being is wrong. It is a sin. And it doesn't matter what our reasons or excuses are. Yet in this imperfect world in which we live, killing other human beings sometimes becomes necessary for the greater good.
My point is that this does not excuse us, nor justify us. It's still wrong to take the life of another human being. So that if it does become necessary, and we have to do so, we still need to repent, and ask for forgiveness, and know that we have fallen short of the love and glory of God. And what we should NOT be doing is glorifying our destructive actions: justifying them in the name of a fallen world, and puffing ourselves up with imagined righteousness for having committed such a terrible act.
And yet I see Christians doing this all the time.
So God told the Jews to sin when He ordered them to kill? Did God sin when He struck down Sodom? Eye for eye- sin?
Like it or not, the Commandment is speaking of murder. The Old Law is still in effect for those who aren't under grace.
The problem with such extreme pacifism is that if it were called that all Christians do nothing, we'd all be Muslims right now. So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't?
The fact remains that Jesus spoke to people who were powerless and were going to face persecution. This well before Christianity became a world religion making up entire countries in need of defense.
He told Peter to bring a blade, he did not scourge soldiers on what they do- there really is nothing to suppose that righteous killing is a sin. It's over-liberal shenanigans; lazy, wishful thought.
Well, I think this is warped. Whichever way you cut it.
If you believe that it is logical that killing human beings is always wrong and at the same time that there are certain circumstances where killing a human being is right or as you say 'for good', then your logic is wrong.
And this is why I am against law. You make a law that says that killing human beings is wrong and then you have to list 5,000 examples where the rule doesn't apply. The end result is that the so called law doesn't give any rational person guidance for making righteous decisions in real ordinary situations. And ordinary people are confused and weakened in their faith when they are told that the only and best choice they had in some situation was to commit sin and they need forgiveness for it. Warped, I say.
She said we should love our enemies? What if everyone did that? What then?
Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: [45] That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.
What is she, some kind of Christian?
Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: [45] That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.
What is she, some kind of Christian?
Carried to a logical conclusion then. All truly loving Christians would be dead and only murderous non Christians would be left alive.? Then the murderous non Christians would begin to kill each other and there would be no human left alive upon the face of the earth.
That would leave one to wonder why would God bother to create humanity in the first place?
I haven't seen anyone here say to kill just for the sake of killing.
It's being done, and they are being killed.
Again, it's being done.
But unfortunately, the Muslim community has only gotten more violent and unstable.
While we are just passing through this world till we go home, the Christians of this world still need to be protected from the harmful tactics of Muslims.
As the old saying goes,
"The only thing needed for evil to flourish, is for good men to stand by and do nothing about it."
America DOES support those Middle Eastern tribal societies that use beheading to kill their population. Our great friends the Saudis (The Bush family's friends and the country where the majority of the 19 hijackers of 9/11) routinely behead folks for criticizing their government, refusing to wear the hijab, etc. etc.
I read awhile back that at least 20 people lose their heads in Saudi Arabia.
PureX
Well-known member
It's called a paradox. It's what happens when we limited humans come face to face with a truth that is greater than we are able to grasp. Much of life is paradoxical in this way.
We humans can accept that, and humble ourselves before a divine truth that's beyond our understanding, or we can arrogantly presume that anything that doesn't fit into our limited and binary capacity for reason must be nonsensical. Either way, we define and reveal ourselves for divine judgment.
What you're missing is the necessity for love, for faith, and for humility. I agree with you that the "law" is trapped by it's own binary logic, and therefor immediately becomes deluged by the necessity of exception. But that's because the law pretends to be universal, whereas love and forgiveness (the spirit of all good law) is not universal, but is personal. The spirit of the law is not 'one-size-fits-all' even though the law presumes to be. Nor is it omniscient. All we can do is the best we can; in our blindness, but also in love. And we will fail. But we will be forgiven for that failure if we have the faith to keep trying.
This is the human condition. We don't get to be "righteous". We don't get to know what's right and wrong most of the time. We don't get to be right just because we think we're right. And we don't get to condemn others just because we think they're wrong. All we get is the divine admonition to love and forgive each other, mostly on the blind. Which we will often fail to do.
Christ isn't asking for our opinions. This is simply how it is.
PureX
Well-known member
There is much to wonder at where God is concerned. I guess that's why we need to practice faith, and humility, and forgiveness. And love.
Instead of religion.
No. You call it a paradox because you don't like to admit it is a contradiction. And when I say 'you' I mean not just you but the millions of unfortunate bound people that believe this.
No. It isn't how it is at all. And your bringing Christ into it in this way shows that you don't have much of an argument. Your only justification for the contradiction amounts to:
'It is a contradiction, therefore we must accept it.'
It's false humility. If you were seaching for truth, you would not stop at contradiction but keep going until you get to a position that both makes sense and is in accord with the Christian faith.
Perhaps if you were to reread Ecclesiastes 3: all verses?
"To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under the heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant... (on to line 8) A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war and a time of peace...."
We must hate that which is evil and that means, by extension, that we must fight evil with all of our might.
stop banging your head against the wall - :bang:
you really have a head of steam moving forward. keep your head about you. keep your head in the game and hold your head high. don't be a dead head or lose your head. when heads roll, head for the mountains, or head west young man. don't let disagreements come to a head. heads i win, tails you lose. cooler heads prevail. talking heads. two-headed monster. head ball. head-ache. bald (look up the origins of that word.lol), head buzz. hard headed. hammer head. head shot. head dress. where are you headed ? headin' home. head and shoulders. head over heels. head start. head injury. sick in the head. head butt. butt head. big head. head hunter. bump ahead, etc. headstone. head over. head out. head down, heads up. head of beer. mushroom head etc. head-on. off with their heads. don't get ahead of yourself, you'll never get ahead that way, red head. ur messed up in the head, feed your head, it's all in your head. head banging, head shaking, nod your head with bed head. and like she once said, ain't that a kick in the head ? i'm outta my head, but seriously, this is all off the top of my head ! ! ! - :nono:
what would Jesus do ? is a good question to ask ourselves. even when we don't know what He would do every time, sometimes it helps to ask that question in our mind, if we have time (and remember to do it). WWJD - btw, God doesn't have to ask our opinions -
PureX
Well-known member
Jesus sets the ideal for us, but that doesn't mean we can live up to it. Sometimes it's going to demand more than we can reasonably give. Why? I don't know. Perhaps it's so that we don't fall into that old original sin of hubris, and thinking that we are God's equals.what would Jesus do ? is a good question to ask ourselves. even when we don't know what He would do every time, sometimes it helps to ask that question in our mind, if we have time (and remember to do it). WWJD - btw, God doesn't have to ask our opinions -
Sadly, we do it anyway, by making excuses for when we can't live up to the ideal. We lower the bar so we can continue to imagine that we can be God's equals.
PureX
Well-known member
The problem, though, is that we were never given the knowledge of good and evil. We just assumed it unto ourselves. That was and still is man's original sin. So every time we pass judgment based on our own limited and self-centered understanding, we are playing at being God, because we really do think we are God's equals. Just as the old Bible story says. And the result is that we have lived for centuries now, fighting with each other, and with all of creation itself, as we keep trying to "correct it" according to our own selfish delusions about what is right and wrong.
And most of the time, it is our religion that is encouraging us in this presumption to play God, and to stand in judgment of all we encounter. And in doing so, encourages us to live in enmity with each other, and with all God's creation.