Mid Acts Disponsationalism

[Jerry Shugart]

Your belief that my refusal to engage you in a proof texting context is somehow proof that you're right is proof that my decision was a wise one.

Of course in your mind your decision to refuse to address any verses which I quoted is a right one. After all, what could you possibly say about this verse and my comments about it?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to you the Jews who lived under the law could have "faith" but unless they had "works" they could not be saved.​

How can anyone take you seriously when you just flat out refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of a simple verse like John 3:16? If that verse is too difficult for you then perhaps you can handle these words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occurring in actual time."

So once a Jew who lived under the law believed he received eternal life. Anything which happens to anyone after he believes cannot contribute in any way to that person's receiving eternal life.

So it is obvious to anyone with an open mind that when the Jew who lived under the law believed then he was saved. And this salvation was apart from works.

 

[Danoh]

Lets all line up and agree with Jerry, and maybe he will go away.

What'll ya say, Jerry, if we to a man and woman acknowledge you as the gran poobah will you go away?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Lets all line up and agree with Jerry, and maybe he will go away.

In reality it is not me who you dislike but instead you dislike the Scriptures that contradict your ridiculous ideas.

And that explains why you want nothing to do with what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

If you were to believe that what is said there is true then you would have to swallow your pride and admit that you have been in error for teaching that the Jews who lived under the law could believe but yet perish. You teach that a Jew who lived under the law could believe but if he did not do the required works then he will indeed perish!

All I see from you is the fact that you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

So sad!

 

[Danoh]

In reality it is not me who you dislike but instead you dislike the Scriptures that contradict your ridiculous ideas.

And that explains why you want nothing to do with what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

If you were to believe that what is said there is true then you would have to swallow your pride and admit that you have been in error for teaching that the Jews who lived under the law could believe but yet perish. You teach that a Jew who lived under the law could believe but if he did not do the required works then he will indeed perish!

All I see from you is the fact that you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

So sad!

Right. Like I have asserted what I believe about that verse one way or the other.

But, keeping baiting; someone's bound to bite, lol

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Your belief that my refusal to engage you in a proof texting context is somehow proof that you're right is proof that my decision was a wise one.

Of course in your mind your decision to refuse to address any verses which I quoted is a right one. After all, what could you possibly say about this verse and my comments about it?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to you the Jews who lived under the law could have "faith" but unless they had "works" they could not be saved.​

How can anyone take you seriously when you just flat out refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of a simple verse like John 3:16? If that verse is too difficult for you then perhaps you can handle these words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occurring in actual time."

So once a Jew who lived under the law believed he received eternal life. Anything which happens to anyone after he believes cannot contribute in any way to that person's receiving eternal life.

So it is obvious to anyone with an open mind that when the Jew who lived under the law believed then he was saved. And this salvation was apart from works.

 

[Danoh]

Once more, I find your choice of words not only very revealing of this self-delusion of yours, and its actual agenda, but laughable.

You write of how [in your mind] in Clete's mind, this and that is what is actually motivating him not to engage you further.

And you write of how [in your mind] he; finding himself cornered by you, he [in your mind] found himself asking himself what could he possibly say about this verse and your comments about it; how that [in your mind] he had found himself completely shut down by you.

You conclude this self-delusion of yours with the laughable phrase "So it is obvious to anyone with an open mind that..."

It is obvious to all minds but a few, that your mind is the mind of neurotic disease.

Yours is not dis-ease with you us - "you are not straightened in us" - rather; you are at dis-ease with your own disease - "you are straightened [straight-jacketed] in your own bowels" [in your case, in your diseased mind].

You are a legend all right. You are the legendary Don Quixote, you self-deluded fool. Ever compelled by his own delusion, not only to see windmills where there are none, and not only as enemies, but enemies that must, at all costs to self-respect before others; be hounded after for decades, but towards their public defeat, and to your lusted after glory, before the very people you call "enemy."

What an absolutely self-deluded fool you continue to prove yourself to be.

Your Jerry-at-trick is nothing new. Men have been laughing at your delusion for centuries.

Yours is a case, you self-deluded buffoon, where the putting away of childish things - that cautionary tale of Don Quixote; of the buffoonery of self-delusion and its tyranny - would be not wise, to put away the lesson of.

And I am being kind. For had we met in elementary school, you would have been running home to mommy, a few less teeth to practice your bullying against others through.

You are detestable. What an absolute waste of all you have sought to learn.

To never have learned that the Cross alone is sufficient. That the answer - the one that really matters - never was, is not, never will be "in us."

Point your finger, you fool. Those three remaining fingers will ever point to the only real windmill you are actually fighting - your being "straightened in your own bowels..."

 

[glorydaz]

Right. Like I have asserted what I believe about that verse one way or the other.

But, keeping baiting; someone's bound to bite, lol

There have been several people who have addressed that verse, but the answer they give is never good enough for Jerry. Fact is, he refused to even listen to what others say. He's like God's UNtruth in that regard. No ears, but a very big mouth.

 

[glorydaz]

One man plants, another waters and the harvest is of God, not man.

I'd share the gospel with a repentant homosexual but they'd have to be repentant or else I'd be throwing pearls before swine, wasting both their time and mine. No one grasps for a life preserver if they don't believe their lives are in jeopardy.

I agree. In fact, the Lord does a lot to prepare us to hear the Gospel. He did for me, and I've seen Him do it for others. Some have to be brought to their knees at the brink of death (Aids, for example, or prison).

First we have to have an inkling we're drowning. Simply put, we have to see ourselves in the LIGHT..... There is nothing that blinds the mind like sexual sins, especially the perverted ones (like homosexuality and child molestation). It takes a big mirror before those folks will admit they are in need of a Saviour.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There have been several people who have addressed that verse, but the answer they give is never good enough for Jerry. Fact is, he refused to even listen to what others say. He's like God's UNtruth in that regard. No ears, but a very big mouth.

Who from the Neo-MAD community has given their interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16.

Give me a name.

And while you are at it, Clete needs a little help in regard to stating the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words at John 5:24 so perhaps you can help him out about the meaning of those words. Show us that you can do more than just attack my character.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You write of how [in your mind] in Clete's mind, this and that is what is actually motivating him not to engage you further.

Here you are again, this time supporting Clete's excuses for why he refuses to address the verses which I quoted.

I answered him about what he said about James 2 and all he did was to make up excuses why he refused to answer my points about what James says here about how those to whom he wrote were saved:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).​

Those in the Neo-MAD camp says that those who received this epistle could not be saved apart from works. But this verse proves conclusively that all that was needed was faith in the word of truth.

If you disagree then what interpretation do you put on the meaning of James' words there?

Of course you will take the fifth because you refuse to say anything about the verses which prove that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith and faith alone.

You have an agenda which has no place for an honest discussion about the meaning of certain verses.

 

[heir]

One man plants, another waters and the harvest is of God, not man.

It's God's will that all men be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of God (1 Timothy 2:4 KJV) and He has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV), yet time after time you withhold the truth that would save these "homos" as you have no good news for them.

I'd share the gospel with a repentant homosexual but they'd have to be repentant or else I'd be throwing pearls before swine, wasting both their time and mine.

Which gospel would that be? The one where they have to clean up their act to hear? Once again, you are out of sync with the will of God and are committed NOT to the word of reconciliiaton (2 Corinthians 5:19-21 KJV).

No one grasps for a life preserver if they don't believe their lives are in jeopardy.

No one trusts the Lord without having heard and believed the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation (Ephesians 1:13 KJV); which apparently you need reminding, is the only thing that will save ANYONE today (Romans 1:16 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV) as you persist in holding the truth to yourself until you deem someone worthy to be saved even though we were all unworthy (Romans 3:23 KJV, Romans 5:6 KJV, Romans 5:8 KJV, Romans 5:10 KJV, Romans 6:23 KJV).

I have no problem with people sharing the gospel with anyone they like.

The gospel of the grace of God can save all men and it is to all men that it should be shared!

Telling the truth is biblical. What I have a problem with is people who think that being nice is biblical. It isn't. Being honest is biblical. Telling the truth is biblical.

You show your hatred for certain people by withholding the truth, the word of truth, that can save ANYONE today!

Allowing the offense of the truth to work its ministry is biblical.

Your words are to be of the cross! IT is to be the offence (Galatians 5:11 KJV)!

Millions will go to Hell because Christians are so nice that people never even get told that they are are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. That's a phrase out of the bible, in case you didn't know.

People go to hell because the "Christian" is so obsessed with what someone else is doing in the flesh, they never preach the truth that can save those in need of saving (Romans 10:14 KJV).

I puke really loudly?

In other words, they won't hear it from you.

When they realize that they and the things they do are gross and perverse.

So one need clean up their act before they can be saved?

The most loving thing (not the nicest thing) that you can say to a homo is....

"You're an evil, disgusting, pervert! Get away from me and my family right now!!"

If, by chance, you happen to have a homo ask you why everyone thinks they're gross (which would never ever happen if people acted the way you do). Then you might say...

"Ew! You're a homo?! It's because you are gross!"

This is the "most loving thing you can say to a homo":

Sin/sins is NOT THE ISSUE today! All of the work necessary to save anyone today was accomplished by God through the faith and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ in the WORLD'S place; that includes ALL MEN (no matter who they are, where they've been or what they were doing while they were there)!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If you at this moment are an unbeliever, the only thing stopping you from being saved is your unbelief because even though the righteousness of God (the standard for heaven) is available UNTO YOU by the faith of Jesus Christ, it is not UPON YOU until that moment in your life when you trust the Lord believing Christ died for your sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Trust the Lord for salvation and the righteousness of God will be imputed to you (Romans 3:21-22 KJV, Romans 4:23-25 KJV).

Or whatever else you can come up with that communicates to them that they are in fact perverted and disgusting.

There's not a one of us who is attractive to God in our flesh (Romans 3:10-12 KJV, Romans 3:23 KJV, Romans 7:18 KJV, Romans 8:8 KJV).

Until they get the message there is no hope for their soul. They will go to Hell if they do not repent. There's no way to change direction if you don't know you're headed the wrong way.

Until they hear the good news from you, they will never know that have hope to be saved! COME ON! The only hope for anyone is the gospel of Christ; how that Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). So why aren't you telling them what is their only hope?

They are capital criminals heir!

So is gluttony. Why aren't you calling for the death of all fat people? I can hear you now, "Kill all the fat people!" "Fat people don't deserve salvation!" LOL And what does anyone being deserving of capital crime have to do with the fact that YOU should be preaching the word of truth to them? IOW, what does that have to do with the ministry of reconciliation? I'll tell you what: NOTHING! If you are an ambassador for Christ, you will get on with the ministry of reconciliation! I guess time will tell.

Your "ministry" does nothing for the edification of the Body of Christ as no one hears the good news from you and therefore cannot be established in the faith (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 3:2 KJV). You've excused yourself and have chosen to remain on the sidelines of the spiritual battle as you war against flesh and blood (Ephesians 6:10-13 KJV) and the affairs of this life (2 Timothy 2:4 KJV). I had hoped with your return, that you would have studied, seen and were here to impart excellent things, but it's just the same old dug in cleats of clete. Because of that, I believe you will see all of your efforts go up in smoke at the judgment seat of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV).

As for God's ambassadors: We'll keep preaching the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), enduring hardness
2 Timothy 2:1 26 KJV), preaching the word and making full proof our ministry 2 Timothy 4:2-5 KJV!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Nope! Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Those same words are found in a narrative which is describing the events leading up to the great tribulation:

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Mt.24:31-32).​

The reference to the "end" at Matthew 24:13 is the "end" of the great tribulation when the Lord Jesus will save in a physical sense all those who have endured endured to the end of the grat tribulation:

"In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem" (Zech.12:8-9).​

Your idea cannot possibly be right because the words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law in the following verse contradict your idea:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

The very moment when the Jews who lived under the law "believed" they were saved so obviously they did not have to endure to the end to be saved. It was His words which saved those same Jews, as witnessed by these words He spoke to them:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

 

[Danoh]

To agree with Jerry is to affirm he has been right to hound after others attempting to force his view on them all these decades.

The issue is not whether he is right or wrong in his beliefs but that he is dead wrong in what he has done with it.

Think about that a minute; that is what he has done with what he believes is the truth; hounded after others for decades now; attempting to shame and or force it on them.

Meaning; to prove him wrong, if he is, would only arm him with the actual truth, for him to hound after others with, should he embrace having been proven wrong.

There is no wining this that he believes is about winning.

In other words, to engage this mini, would be, bully of a pope at all, is for more others to have to suffer him all over again, for who knows how much longer.

There is your dead horse, people. There is your nut, in a nutshell.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

To agree with Jerry is to affirm he has been right to hound after others attempting to force his view on them all these decades.

The issue is not whether he is right or wrong in his beliefs but that he is dead wrong in what he has done with it.

You couldn't care less about what the Scriptures reveal.

All you care is getting back at me because I demonstrated that you are wrong when you say that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.

Your idea cannot possibly be right because the words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law in the following verse contradict your idea:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

The very moment when the Jews who lived under the law "believed" they were saved. It was His words which saved those same Jews, as witnessed by these words He spoke to them:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

 

[Clete]

It's God's will that all men be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of God (1 Timothy 2:4 KJV) and He has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV), yet time after time you withhold the truth that would save these "homos" as you have no good news for them.

Which gospel would that be? The one where they have to clean up their act to hear? Once again, you are out of sync with the will of God and are committed NOT to the word of reconciliiaton (2 Corinthians 5:19-21 KJV). No one trusts the Lord without having heard and believed the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation (Ephesians 1:13 KJV); which apparently you need reminding, is the only thing that will save ANYONE today (Romans 1:16 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV) as you persist in holding the truth to yourself until you deem someone worthy to be saved even though we were all unworthy (Romans 3:23 KJV, Romans 5:6 KJV, Romans 5:8 KJV, Romans 5:10 KJV, Romans 6:23 KJV).

The gospel of the grace of God can save all men and it is to all men that it should be shared!

You show your hatred for certain people by withholding the truth, the word of truth, that can save ANYONE today!

Your words are to be of the cross! IT is to be the offence (Galatians 5:11 KJV)!

People go to hell because the "Christian" is so obsessed with what someone else is doing in the flesh, they never preach the truth that can save those in need of saving (Romans 10:14 KJV).

In other words, they won't hear it from you.


So one need clean up their act before they can be saved?

This is the "most loving thing you can say to a homo":

Sin/sins is NOT THE ISSUE today! All of the work necessary to save anyone today was accomplished by God through the faith and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ in the WORLD'S place; that includes ALL MEN (no matter who they are, where they've been or what they were doing while they were there)!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If you at this moment are an unbeliever, the only thing stopping you from being saved is your unbelief because even though the righteousness of God (the standard for heaven) is available UNTO YOU by the faith of Jesus Christ, it is not UPON YOU until that moment in your life when you trust the Lord believing Christ died for your sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Trust the Lord for salvation and the righteousness of God will be imputed to you (Romans 3:21-22 KJV, Romans 4:23-25 KJV).



There's not a one of us who is attractive to God in our flesh (Romans 3:10-12 KJV, Romans 3:23 KJV, Romans 7:18 KJV, Romans 8:8 KJV). Until they hear the good news from you, they will never know that have hope to be saved! COME ON! The only hope for anyone is the gospel of Christ; how that Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). So why aren't you telling them what is their only hope?

So is gluttony. Why aren't you calling for the death of all fat people? I can hear you now, "Kill all the fat people!" "Fat people don't deserve salvation!" LOL And what does anyone being deserving of capital crime have to do with the fact that YOU should be preaching the word of truth to them? IOW, what does that have to do with the ministry of reconciliation? I'll tell you what: NOTHING! If you are an ambassador for Christ, you will get on with the ministry of reconciliation! I guess time will tell.

Your "ministry" does nothing for the edification of the Body of Christ as no one hears the good news from you and therefore cannot be established in the faith (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 3:2 KJV). You've excused yourself and have chosen to remain on the sidelines of the spiritual battle as you war against flesh and blood (Ephesians 6:10-13 KJV) and the affairs of this life (2 Timothy 2:4 KJV). I had hoped with your return, that you would have studied, seen and were here to impart excellent things, but it's just the same old dug in cleats of clete. Because of that, I believe you will see all of your efforts go up in smoke at the judgment seat of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV).

As for God's ambassadors: We'll keep preaching the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), enduring hardness
2 Timothy 2:1 26 KJV), preaching the word and making full proof our ministry 2 Timothy 4:2-5 KJV!

Heir,

It is unfortunate that you're so emotional.

You're arguing, whether you intend to or not, for the decriminalization of everything!

After all, Christ died for everyone and so sin isn't the issue! Makes no difference if a person watched a Super Bowl commercial with a little too much interest or if they skinned their neighbors 8 year old child. What difference does it make? Christ died for both and so we shouldn't do or say anything that might be offensive to the child taxidermist aside from "Jesus died for you!".

I say, "You're under arrest!" is a better thing to say! Or perhaps, "Guilty as charged!" or "You are hereby sentenced to death by whatever means selected by your victim's family."

Any or all of those would be appropriate and Godly. For as Paul wrote...

"knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death"

"But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless..."​

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[patrick jane]

Heir,

It is unfortunate that you're so emotional.

You're arguing, whether you intend to or not, for the decriminalization of everything!

After all, Christ died for everyone and so sin isn't the issue! Makes no difference if a person watched a Super Bowl commercial with a little too much interest or if they skinned their neighbors 8 year old child. What difference does it make? Christ died for both and so we shouldn't do or say anything that might be offensive to the child taxidermist aside from "Jesus died for you!".

I say, "You're under arrest!" is a better thing to say! Or perhaps, "Guilty as charged!" or "You are hereby sentenced to death by whatever means selected by your victim's family."

Any or all of those would be appropriate and Godly. For as Paul wrote...

"knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death"

"But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless..."​

Resting in Him,
Clete

good scriptures -

 

[Right Divider]

Heir,

It is unfortunate that you're so emotional.

You're arguing, whether you intend to or not, for the decriminalization of everything!

After all, Christ died for everyone and so sin isn't the issue! Makes no difference if a person watched a Super Bowl commercial with a little too much interest or if they skinned their neighbors 8 year old child. What difference does it make? Christ died for both and so we shouldn't do or say anything that might be offensive to the child taxidermist aside from "Jesus died for you!".

I say, "You're under arrest!" is a better thing to say! Or perhaps, "Guilty as charged!" or "You are hereby sentenced to death by whatever means selected by your victim's family."

Any or all of those would be appropriate and Godly. For as Paul wrote...

"knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death"

"But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless..."​

Resting in Him,
Clete

That is one amazingly confused post.

You clearly do not understand Paul's teaching about grace.

Heir is NOT proclaiming lawlessness (as was also falsely claimed of Paul).

 

[patrick jane]

That is one amazingly confused post.

You clearly do not understand Paul's teaching about grace.

Heir is NOT proclaiming lawlessness (as was also falsely claimed of Paul).

true. and we aren't against repenting either.

when i repent it's not for salvation, or anything to do with being saved or going to heaven, that was completed and i am sealed because of Christ Jesus Ephesians 1:13 KJV -

repenting is a choice for mankind, believers or not, righteous and blasphemers and it doesn't save - Jesus preaches repentance Paul preaches repentance in Acts and his epistles, as do all the Apostles, it is a natural process through hearing and believing the gospel of our salvation - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -

i thank God i don't fill my head with wrong ideas of salvation and wrongly dividing God's Word. I pray that I lose and dismiss any misinterpretations i have, any misconceptions.

like a saw heir post - "we didn't do anything to get saved, what makes us thing we can do anything to lose salvation" - probably not those exact words, but i think i'm close. if not, sorry heir, I know what I meant - that's what's important - LOL

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Your belief that my refusal to engage you in a proof texting context is somehow proof that you're right is proof that my decision was a wise one.

Of course in your mind your decision to refuse to address any verses which I quoted is a right one. After all, what could you possibly say about these words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occurring in actual time."

So once a Jew who lived under the law believed he received eternal life. Anything which happens to anyone after he believes cannot contribute in any way to that person's receiving eternal life.

So it is obvious to anyone with an open mind that when the Jew who lived under the law believed then he was saved. And this salvation was apart from works.

But you refuse to even attempt to reconcile what the Savior said there to you idea that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.

 

[Danoh]

The Glory of His Grace

The Glory of His Grace

Heir,

It is unfortunate that you're so emotional.

You're arguing, whether you intend to or not, for the decriminalization of everything!

After all, Christ died for everyone and so sin isn't the issue! Makes no difference if a person watched a Super Bowl commercial with a little too much interest or if they skinned their neighbors 8 year old child. What difference does it make? Christ died for both and so we shouldn't do or say anything that might be offensive to the child taxidermist aside from "Jesus died for you!".

I say, "You're under arrest!" is a better thing to say! Or perhaps, "Guilty as charged!" or "You are hereby sentenced to death by whatever means selected by your victim's family."

Any or all of those would be appropriate and Godly. For as Paul wrote...

"knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death"

"But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless..."​

Resting in Him,
Clete

In Romans 1:18 thru Romans 3:20, the Apostle Paul lays out a brief history of man’s inability to save himself from wrath of God that the righteousness of God demands.

On the one hand, Paul lays out there the principle of man's many acts of rebellion to God’s various expressions of His standard of righteousness, on the other.

All which was being used of God as His means of pointing to the all sufficiency of His Son’s coming Cross.

Towards showing this, God reveals that...

1] man left to his conscience, fails. That...

2] man legislated as to his conduct, fails. That...

3] man threatened with the very real threat not only of death, but of eternal damnation following...fails.

That only the righteousness of God in His Grace without the Law unto all, and upon all them that believe in His Son’s fully satisfying sacrifice have hope for the very means of liberty from the bondage of sin, through the newness of life made possible by and in His Son.

What does the supposed Bible Believer respond to that with, out of his ignorance that “the strength of sin is the Law” - he climbs up on his soap box, pulls his hair, stomps his feet, and shouts at the top of his lungs "Legislate the sin of the lost - put the Ten Commandments back in the public schools" and other such notions The Book he claims to hold to, long ago proved "short of the glory of God."