Greetings CoP
Credit to you for persistence.
Rom 3:23: "since ALL HAVE sinned and fall short of the glory of God". It talks about HUMANS who are sinning, not about the sin within us that is sinning.
I understand that you cannot see the difference between MANkind and what MANkind is bound with. Romans 7:17, 20-21 is A GOOD LOOK.
Paul NEVER called himself SIN but identified SIN INDWELLING as NOT HIM.
NOW when you can MAKE PAUL say HE WAS SIN INDWELLING then you will have your first point. It cannot be done.
Secondly IF YOU INSIST that you are THE SINNER then you should read 1 John 3:6 and then tell me IF YOU KNOW GOD. John should STOP YOU IN YOUR TRACKS.
You have your assignment Agent Cyrus.
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I do not deny eternal torture NOR do I explain it away. It was always meant for the devil and his messengers.
The passages are written AGAINST sin indwelling and evil present. The spiritual meaning is not against mankind.
Thank you. You are getting better at this.
But it doesnt mean that i agree with that.
It doesn't matter if it is the truth.
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This is only how you are allowed to see it. Jesus saw these things dwelling in people and spoke to them continually and cast them out. He ALWAYS separated SIN from PEOPLE. That is why ALL SINS including blasphemy will NOT be held against people and it was JESUS who said so. What more do you want?
When Jesus said "go and sin no more", He was not talking with Sin indwelling in person, but with person himself.
In the LIGHT of His Word we are allowed to SEE SIN and WAR with it. The Victory is gained IN HIS LOVE TO ALL first to ourselves, and then to others. There is no other reason to follow Jesus apart from His Love to ALL. His Love is ALL that has mattered. All that matters. All that ever will matter. God IS Love.
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Listen, I'm not going to listen to your grovel. The Truth is written on this matter and your imaginations where you are led astray by SIN INDWELLING and EVIL PRESENT is OF THE DEVIL. Your "thoughts" are subject to being LED ASTRAY and manipulated by THESE THINGS.
And you think that your spiritual interpretation of the topic is not the fruit of your own thoughts?
I have provided WORD positions only. This is not something I have magically come up with. It was this way from the beginning.
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And you are trying to JUSTIFY HOMOSEXUALITY. Sorry, this cannot be done using God's Word. Sorry.
Again BRAVO.
Now if you want to stray from The Word on this subject that is your prerogative. I have no interest in what MEN think.
But as we see changes in NT understanding about The Law (of course if we are able to see them), then we are made to quess: did the changes ended with closed NT canon, or is God speaking us in new way even today?
That is what think YOU SEE. Nowhere is BREAKING THE LAW EVER condoned in the N.T. ever. Better men then you have tried to make this case BECAUSE THEY CANNOT PERFORM UNDER IT so they DENY IT.
This is a FALSE WAY and a DEAD END.
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If that were the case The Law is passed BUT that is not what Jesus said either nor did Paul nor did John. The Law Stands and it CAN AND IS fulfilled IN US BY US.
Jesus clarified the Law. Paul said: "For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified" (Rom 10:4) and "So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian" (Gal 3:24-25).
Ah ha. But you see SIN INDWELLING US and EVIL PRESENT with us REMAINS under the law. If you do not believe this try murdering someone and SEE HOW FREE FROM THE LAW you really are.
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I am not going to take the time to cite you the MULTIPLE TEXTS that show homosexuality A SIN. If you have not got that far on the subject you are over your head anyway.
Have i said ANYWHERE that homosexuality was not sin in biblical times?
If you want to make your case APART FROM THE WORD then you are making a POSITION OF THE WORLD.
I am not interested in such things. What do I care of trying to CONTROL SIN. The MORE the LAW is applied to it THE STRONGER IT GETS and THE MORE IT MULTIPLIES.
And APART FROM THE LAW it grows as well. Satan does have children and WEEDS REPRODUCE as well eh???
But i did NOT asked about homosexuality here. I asked to what LAW are you referring all the time. Why dont you answer to it finally?
Do your own word search on it. Biblegateway.com
Just plug in MEN LIE and you'll find it. Then you can name the law whatever you want. I am not interested in slicing and dicing the law with you. Ceremonial, Levitical, Noahide, whatever.
Jesus called these things THE LAW and THE PROPHETS and that they ALL SPOKE
OF HIM.
And: "I understand The Law is a little overwhelming as a topic" is not the answer, because it could happen that we are talking about different laws unless you explain yourself.
You cannot make ANY of God's Word go away so IF your track here is to say that THE LEVITICAL LAWS are ONLY FOR THE FLESH OF ISRAEL you are wasting your time.
It is ALL GOD'S WORD and AS SUCH IT ALL STANDS as current for today as it was when it was delivered and it WILL STAND IN THE FUTURE as well.
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When a person eats pork sin indwelling them SINs in the flesh.
Are you blind? Can't you see that eating pork is not SIN in NT. How do you explain THAT?
IF ANY MAN falsely alters God's Laws they are in ERROR. If you think that PETERS SHEET denies the law it does not. If you think that because the Apostles did not REQUIRE THE LAW to be followed by the gentiles THIS DOES NOT SET ASIDE THE LAW either.
The Law stands exactly as written.
When i talk that death is the penalty of sin, i talk about the same thing, and still you opposed to this idea and said that sin within us is paying the penalty. It's all about language, while the essence seems to be same.
What you are saying is that for your TEMPORAL CRIME you should pay AN ETERNAL PENALTY? I say this type of measure is A FALSE measure.
Sin, evil, and death will be eternally PUNISHED/ANNIHILATED. It was GOD HIMSELF who created ALL THINGS. When He is finished USING THESE THINGS they will be set aside. They are not of the Eternal nor are they FIT to EXIST in ETERNITY as ETERNITY.
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When a person dies they are separated from their sins. (Romans 6:7)
If you read this verse in context you see that it is not talking about our physical death, but our death with Christ.
This is an accounted or reckoned position while we are still in the flesh, but it is a reality of the flesh as well. He was talking about PHYSICAL DEATH. The SAME PHYSICAL DEATH that JESUS suffered.
As He died in cross, so did we. As He was rised from the dead, so were we. We are identified with His death and resurrection.
Exactly the point, but you see nowhere is the threat of SINNING in the believer (or anyone else) REMOVED while we are still attached to OUR MORTAL BODIES.
And you say that you are one of those absolutists, who think that they own the truth and those who oppose their ideas are wrong?
I understand you are looking for the FLAWS in this position. You have made your attempts to DENY the law. You have made your attempts to DENY THE WORD. You have made your attempts to MAKE HOMOSEXUALITY not be a SIN. In the end you will ACCUSE me of being various things for whatever reason. I am only interested in what THE WORD has to say about all these things.
IF so, then you arent better than any fundy and it's useless to waste our time on this matter, because you are so right in your own eyes.
Are you going to condemn me to burn forever now CoP??? I see God's Wisdom in these matters. What is that to you?
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ALL SIN IN THE FLESH IS CONDEMNED yet GOD LOVES ALL OF MANKIND. It is GOD Himself who has BOUND US to DISOBEDIENCE so that ALL will receive MERCY. Romans 11:32
So are condemned ALL humans, because ALL have sinned, but God loves us even if we are sinners. That's why He payed the prize in the Cross so we all might recieve mercy.
God BOUND men TO disobedience. You want to BLUR these lines. I do not have to. I see ALL PEOPLE as GOD'S CHILDREN and as such THEY ARE PERFECT, even while they are BEING PERFECTED by this exercise of TEMPORAL LIFE bound with our ENEMIES. Longsuffering is not a short lesson.
enjoy!
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