Matthew 12:40

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
In Greek, four of the words for the weekdays derived from ordinals. However, the Greek word for Friday is Paraskevi and is derived from a word meaning "to prepare" (paraskeue). Like Saturday (Savato, and Sunday, (Kiriaki), Friday is named for its liturgical significance as the day of preparation before the Sabbath, which was inherited by Greek Christian Orthodox culture from Jewish practices.


Greek days of the week:

Sunday = (KiriakEE)
Monday = (DeFTEra)
Tuesday =(TREEtee)
Wednesday =(TeTArtee)
Thursday =(PEmptee)
Friday =(ParaskeVEE)
Saturday =(SAvatoh)
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
intojoy,

re: "...the expression three days and three nights can also be reconciled, for this is simply a Jewish figure of speech meaning 'any period of time that touches three days'.”

And that is why I started this topic; to see if there is any writing from the first century or before that uses a phrase stating a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights for a period of time where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of each one of the specified number of days and at least parts of each one of the specified number of nights.



"While to the 21st-century reader these statements may initially appear to contradict one another, in reality, they harmonize perfectly if one understands the different, and sometimes more liberal, methods ancients often used when reckoning time. In the first century, any part of a day could be computed for the whole day and the night following it (cf. Lightfoot, 1979, pp. 210-211). The Jerusalem Talmud quotes rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, who lived around A.D. 100, as saying: “A day and night are an Onah [‘a portion of time’] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it” (from Jerusalem Talmud: Shabbath ix. 3, as quoted in Hoehner, 1974, pp. 248-249, bracketed comment in orig.). Azariah indicated that a portion of a 24-hour period could be considered the same “as the whole of it.” Thus, as awkward as it may sound to an American living in the 21st century, a person in ancient times could legitimately speak of something occurring “on the third day,” “after three days,” or after “three days and three nights,” yet still be referring to the same exact day."-

Quote from:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=6&article=756
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Friday crucifixion is an interesting theory but it engenders a question.

That day was the Preparation and the Sabbath drew near. And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid.

Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
(Luke 23:54-56)​

The Sabbath according to the commandment is the weekly Sabbath. The women prepared their spices and fragrant oils and then rested on the weekly Sabbath which means their spice and oil preparation was done before the weekly Sabbath.

The women saw how the body was laid and a Sabbath began. This means there were two Sabbaths while Jesus was in the tomb.

The women prepared their spices on Friday after the Thursday annual Sabbath and then rested on the weekly Sabbath.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Jesus was not buried on Wednesday afternoon. Jesus was not resurrected on Saturday afternoon.

Jesus was buried as Thursday began and was resurrected as Sunday began.
If you are referring to Wednesday as the sun sets and Saturday as the sun sets, then we are talking about the same thing, and you have to ignore most of the scripture that says when the crucifixion and resurrection happened in order to make a single verse fit.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Yes, you did indeed provide scriptures that say Sunday is the third day from Friday. Way to go.

Let's count it together. We have Saturday, Sunday ... oops. But we did get close.
Let's count again, but let's do it the way it was done by Jesus:

Luke 13:32
And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.​


Luke 24:21
But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.​

To day, to morrow, and the third day.

Jesus spoke to the two on the road to Emmaus on the third day.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
I'm surprised you believe you can observe Unleavened Bread without any preparation.
I am surprised that the Pharisees have convinced so many people that a lot of preparation is needed in order to commemorate a time when the children of Israel were in such a hurry to flee Egypt that they didn't have time to prepare leavened bread.

Deuteronomy 16:3
Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, even the bread of affliction; for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life.​

 

genuineoriginal

New member
The women prepared their spices on Friday after the Thursday annual Sabbath and then rested on the weekly Sabbath.
The women would not have opened the grave to apply the spices after the body was in the grave for four days, since that would have been too late.

John 11:39
Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.​

 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Let's count again, but let's do it the way it was done by Jesus:

Luke 13:32
And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.​


Luke 24:21
But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.​

To day, to morrow, and the third day.

Jesus spoke to the two on the road to Emmaus on the third day.

Exactly!

If Jesus was in the grave for three twentyfour hour periods then He would have risen on the fourth day.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
If the crucifixion was on Wednesday, then the two talking on Sunday would have said it was the fifth day since the crucifixion.

Correct! :thumb:

Yes, the two said, "This is the third day since these things happened."
What things?
Condemned to death and crucified.

Luk 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

According to the context of Luk 24, they said this on Sunday afternoon. The third day counting backward from Sunday would be Friday like we say, "Three days ago such and such took place."
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
According to the context of Luk 24, they said this on Sunday afternoon. The third day counting backward from Sunday would be Friday like we say, "Three days ago such and such took place."

Ok, let's count back from Sunday. One day from Sunday would be Saturday. Two days from Sunday would be Friday. Three days from Sunday would be Thursday, which was when he was buried.

So you just proved that Jesus was not crucified on Friday.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
If Jesus was in the grave for three twentyfour hour periods then He would have risen on the fourth day.

Jesus was buried as Thursday began. One day from Thursday would be Friday. Two days from Thursday would Saturday. Three days from Thursday would be Sunday.

Jesus was raised up on Sunday the third day from when he was buried.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Ok, let's count back from Sunday. One day from Sunday would be Saturday. Two days from Sunday would be Friday. Three days from Sunday would be Thursday, which was when he was buried.

So you just proved that Jesus was not crucified on Friday.

You miscounted the days because you started from zero.
This is a common mistake among modern people that learned from the Arabic numbering system.

The correct way to count is:
Friday, the first day
Saturday, the second day
Sunday, the third day
 

Ben Masada

New member
You miscounted the days because you started from zero.
This is a common mistake among modern people that learned from the Arabic numbering system.

The correct way to count is:
Friday, the first day
Saturday, the second day
Sunday, the third day

You missed the 3 nights. Don't forget that Mat.12:40 speaks of 3 nights too.
 

Ben Masada

New member
The evidence of the Gospels is that Yeshua was killed on a Friday and placed in the tomb before sundown on Friday. There is no need to take the term Sabbath any other way than the usual Sabbath, which is from sundown Friday until sundown Saturday. This is the emphasis of Scripture.

Does it mean you admit that the prophecy in Mat. 12:40 was a blunder of the guy who wrote it? I agree with you totally about your whole big post but to me your taking of this position, Mat. 12:40 has become a contradiction. How do you harmonize that as a Christian?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
You miscounted the days because you started from zero.
This is a common mistake among modern people that learned from the Arabic numbering system.

The correct way to count is:
Friday, the first day
Saturday, the second day
Sunday, the third day

Let's say for the sake of discussion that there are twenty-four hours in a day. Scripture does not directly specify which day of the week that Jesus was buried, but it does specify which day he arose.

Let's also say for the sake of discussion that Jesus arose on Sunday. So twenty-four hours before Sunday would be Saturday and we will count that as one day.

Twenty-four hours before Saturday would be Friday and we will count that as the second day.

Twenty-four hours before Friday would be Thursday and we will count that as the third day.

Jesus was buried as Thursday began and that is what scripture says.

But I am curious as to why you are working so hard to prove that Jesus lied about the sign of Jonah. What proof do you have that Jonah was not in the sea creature for three days and three nights?

Jesus said he was so why do you think Jesus lied? Why not give Jesus the benefit of the doubt?
 

rstrats

Active member
steko,

re: "The Jerusalem Talmud quotes rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, who lived around A.D. 100, as saying: 'A day and night are an Onah [‘a portion of time’] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it'”


I addressed the Azariah quote in post #9.
 

rstrats

Active member
Squeaky,

re: "I said Well some worked part of a day and some worked all day. But the land owner paid them all the same. The land owner seen a part of a day as a full day."


I'm afraid I don't see what that has to do with Matthew 12:40 or my request in the OP. I wonder if you might explain why you think that it does?
 

rstrats

Active member
jamie,

re: "The women prepared their spices on Friday after the Thursday annual Sabbath and then rested on the weekly Sabbath."


Maybe you did and I missed it, but shouldn't you have referrenced Mark 16:1 to support that position?
 

rstrats

Active member
genuineoriginal,

re: "To day, to morrow, and the third day."

In order for that to be analagous to Matthew 12:40 the verse would have to read: "Today's night time and daytime, tomorrow's night time and day time, and the third day's night time and daytime."
 
Top