ECT MADists don't follow Paul

tetelestai

tetelestai

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whitestone said:
the Christians went over the hills and down into the valley to Pella remember?
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Yes, this is documented by a few early church fathers and historians.

in the city of Jerusalem were those who did not pay head to the warning and were "not christian/awaited another Messiah".
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For the most part yes. These were the Christ rejecting Jews.

So it does not fulfill a great tribulation where Christians are dying for their testimony of Jesus "my names sake",,,nor are they washed in the blood of the lamb that they do not believe in.
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I don't know where you are getting the "Christians dying for their testimony of Jesus".

The Great Tribulation was for the unbelieving Jews, not Christians.
 
steko

steko

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tetelestai said:
There is no such thing as a rapture.

You won't find "rapture" anywhere in the Bible.

It was invented by John Nelson Darby.

Before Darby, you won't find any mention of a rapture in all of Christendome.
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It's clear that the word from which the English word 'rapture' comes, is used in the Latin Vulgate for the Greek 'harpazo'- English 'caught up/away.
Here's five:



Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 8:39 *** autem ascendissent de aqua Spiritus Domini rapuit Philippum et amplius non vidit eum eunuchus ibat enim per viam suam gaudens -Latin Vulgate

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

IThess 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur *** illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper *** Domino erimus- Latin Vulgate

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

2Co 12:2 scio hominem in Christo ante annos quattuordecim sive in corpore nescio sive extra corpus nescio Deus scit raptum eiusmodi usque ad tertium caelum
12:4 quoniam raptus est in paradisum et audivit arcana verba quae non licet homini loqui- Latin Vulgate

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Rev 12:5 et peperit filium masculum qui recturus erit omnes gentes in virga ferrea et raptus est filius eius ad Deum et ad thronum eius -Latin Vulgate
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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musterion said:
That's what I just said.

Stop embarrassing yourself already. Slap the mat.
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You said not every stone was left standing upon another in 70AD.

Are you claiming the Wailing Wall that stands today proves Matt 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 hasn't been fulfilled yet?
 
musterion

musterion

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tetelestai said:
You said not every stone was left standing upon another in 70AD.
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Christ said in Luke 19 that no stone in the whole city would be left upon another. Not just the temple, the whole city. Josephus says that did not happen: stones were left upon one another. The Wailing Wall, which you say was not part of the temple proper, also proves the prophecy did not get fulfilled at that time.

That means either prophecy regarding Jerusalem remains unfulfilled, or you will have to say that Christ lied. You have no third choice.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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patrick jane said:
Like I said, it was written way before Darby, the bain of your existence
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Then show us who wrote about the rapture before Darby?

Show us these writings about a rapture before the mid 1800's

You guys must like embarrassing yourselves.

Instead of just admitting that you all are Darby Followers, and that Darby invented what you guys adhere to, you guys make fools out of yourselves claiming the things Darby invented existed before Darby.
 
musterion

musterion

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I don't doubt that. But Tettles will deny away what he can't use in the Bible before he questions the reliability of Josephus.

Josephus is his Bible. The Bible is just proof texting for Josephus.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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musterion said:
Christ said in Luke 19 that no stone in the whole city would be left upon another. Not just the temple, the whole city. Josephus says that did not happen: stones were left upon one another. The Wailing Wall, which you say was not part of the temple proper, also proves the prophecy did not get fulfilled at that time.

That means either prophecy regarding Jerusalem remains unfulfilled, or you will have to say that Christ lied. You have no third choice.
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Before I show you what a fool you are, let me ask you a question.

Let's assume you're correct (even though you are not) When does Matt 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, and Luke 19 get fulfilled?

Does a new third temple and a bunch of buildings have to be built out of stone in Jerusalem, and then some kind of major destruction on the city has to happen again where not one stone is left standing upon another?

REMEMBER, first the city would have to be surrounded by an army so people could flee to the hills before not one stone was left standing upon another.

Is this what you are claiming?

P.S. Keep in mind that modern buildings aren't built out of stone, they are built out of steel

Please tell us how Luke 19, Luke 21, Mark 13, and Matt 24 are fulfilled in the future?
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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tetelestai said:
Then show us who wrote about the rapture before Darby?

Show us these writings about a rapture before the mid 1800's

You guys must like embarrassing yourselves.

Instead of just admitting that you all are Darby Followers, and that Darby invented what you guys adhere to, you guys make fools out of yourselves claiming the things Darby invented existed before Darby.
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You are latching on to the word rapture !! Describe the scripture I posted in layman's terms
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
musterion said:
I don't doubt that. But Tettles will deny away what he can't use in the Bible before he questions the reliability of Josephus.

Josephus is his Bible. The Bible is just proof texting for Josephus.
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lol,lets see if he clicks on the link I gave to him from Irenaeus and accepts it,,,
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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whitestone said:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103529.htm

caught up this will be the last contest...
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Irenaeus didn't teach a rapture.

However, let's look at what Irenaeus did say:

"..but they used the Mosaic law until the coming of the Lord; but from the Lord's advent, the new covenant which brings back peace, and the law which gives life, has gone forth over the whole earth, as the prophets said: "For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem ; and He shall rebuke many people; and they shall break down their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruninghooks, and they shall no longer learn to fight." - Against Heresies," Book IV, Chapter 34

Notice Irenaeus taught that the New Covenant has gone forth over the whole earth.

Do you agree with Irenaeus on the New Covenant?
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Notice how he'll ask questions to avoid answering them. Don't fall for it. He already knows what we all believe. Pin him down. Make him explain his inconsistencies.
 
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