LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

[chatmaggot]

I actually think this was a pretty clue-filled episode.

What kind of clues did you pick up? To me it just caused more questions and pushed the story line forward a little more (there is a battle coming).

The only thing that I thought was interesting was now it seems that Widmore is going to battle against the SmokeMonster...yet throughout all of the other seasons he battled against Ben.

It always seems like people are always going somewhere else on the Island. People are always following someone to someplace. Once they get there...they pack up and move someplace else.

 

[Yorzhik]

I don't see how Sawyer as a cop fits with Sawyer as a con man in Australia. I'm just going to ignore it, though, and keep watching.

Also, I hope they don't bring Ben out of character. He's a liar liar liar. His act with Ilana was just a day at the office. Unless they give a better reason or show over time he had actually had an epiphany (which I would doubt at this point). What is more interesting is the interaction dealing with him.

 

[zoo22]

I don't see how Sawyer as a cop fits with Sawyer as a con man in Australia. I'm just going to ignore it, though, and keep watching.

I didn't like that part of the episode that much, but that said, I'm surprised that so many people seem to consider Sawyer differently as a cop (and remember that he did wind up as a cop on the island). I do see one primary difference which I'll point out later... But he seems approximately the same to me in this scenario. As far as his personal demons and struggles for sure, but also as far as posing as something/someone he's really not. It seems, in effect, a con. In this case, he's wearing the mask of a cop. But can you really find all that much much that's different about Sawyer in this scenario as the con man scenario?

Consider how little he cared about criminal Kate escaping handcuffed at the airport. In fact, he got a kick out of it... He actually helped her out of the elevator with a smile on his face (with the smooth con man move of calling attention to her as he did it). Cop? Not really.

Sawyer/Ford's life drive & motivation has been to kill Anthony Cooper. It was as a con man, and it is as a cop. In either case, he is alone, consumed by the past, keeping "who he is" hidden away in a drawer, unable to "let go." He might seem somewhat happier on surface in this version of himself, but ultimately, he's obviously not. It's a facade.

I think [hope] that's why as I'd mentioned in another post, this LA scenario (primarily the introductory hotel scene revealing him as a cop) was so bizarrely over-the-top and cheesy. I saw it as conspicuously overly-dramatic and poorly acted (overly-dramatic in a different way than LOST typically is). It really was like a bad cop show, with all of the trappings. I half expected someone to yell "Cut! That's a wrap!" after Miles and police-crew stormed into the hotel room, with the camera pulling back to reveal it as a set. It looked like a set. First I thought it was just poorly conceived and acted, but after watching it a 2nd time, I do think that it was intended that way. Or then again, maybe it was just cheesy. But did anyone notice the "Hollywood" mug he was drinking out of at the office?

Also as far as differences/similarities in character, as I'd said at the beginning, don't forget that Sawyer did wind up as a cop on the island. And he seemed at peace having settled into that new life. Granted, he was still involved in a facade. And in this new LA scenario, he obviously isn't at peace.

What did strike me as a big difference in this scenario was that while in either case (cop or con man), he was driven and trapped by the same thing (kill Cooper), the choice he had made was towards the "right" side (cop) rather than the "wrong" side (criminal). It seems that's because Jacob didn't interfere. He wasn't pushed in a direction by being given the pen to finish the letter, and he wound up making a different (more positive) choice. He took a different path. But at least so far, is he really all that different?

 

[Town Heretic]

I didn't like that part of the episode that much, but that said, I'm surprised that so many people seem to consider Sawyer differently as a cop (and remember that he did wind up as a cop on the island). I do see one primary difference which I'll point out later... But he seems approximately the same to me in this scenario. As far as his personal demons and struggles for sure, but also as far as posing as something/someone he's really not. It seems, in effect, a con. In this case, he's wearing the mask of a cop. But can you really find all that much much that's different about Sawyer in this scenario as the con man scenario?

...What did strike me as a big difference in this scenario was that while in either case (cop or con man), he was driven and trapped by the same thing (kill Cooper), the choice he had made was towards the "right" side (cop) rather than the "wrong" side (criminal). It seems that's because Jacob didn't interfere. He wasn't pushed in a direction by being given the pen to finish the letter, and he wound up making a different (more positive) choice. He took a different path. But at least so far, is he really all that different?

Why do I have the sinking feeling that you spent more time contemplating that opening scene than the writer(s) did? :idunno:

Sawyer's dialog was almost nonsensical regarding his expectations of her conduct inside that brief scene...bizarre.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Keep in mind that the entire sideways reality seems to be off or askew in some strange way. And it isn't a time-line that split in 2004 with the non-crash of flight 815, instead it's a time-line that split in 1977 when Juliette detonated the bomb or whatever she did in that hole (we are still not totally sure what happened there). Therefore there would be almost 30 years of a schism in time. Something clearly isn't "right" in the sideways reality and that's why I suspect that our hero's in the "normal" reality will be the ones that need to prevail in someway to set things straight again.

 

[zoo22]

The only thing that I thought was interesting was now it seems that Widmore is going to battle against the SmokeMonster...yet throughout all of the other seasons he battled against Ben.

Don't forget that while Widmore and Ben have had their own battle going on, they both are ultimately concerned with the island over one another. I think their relationships with the island/Jacob/MIB trump the relationships between themselves.

Also, consider that Widmore probably believes (or knows) that if something really goes wrong on the island "we'll all die." ... I pretty much assume he does, because he and Eloise seem to share the same knowledge/mindset regarding the island's power, and that's what she's told Desmond. Maybe I'm wrong. I've wondered if perhaps, the whole Widmore "Secondary Protocol" thing with the freighter mercenaries, while it seemed particularly evil, was a last measure plan to make sure that a much greater catastrophe didn't occur.

It always seems like people are always going somewhere else on the Island. People are always following someone to someplace. Once they get there...they pack up and move someplace else.

:chuckle:

"You all have got a lot of questions, I know. And I will make myself available to to answer them.

... But right now we've got to keep moving."

 

[zoo22]

Why do I have the sinking feeling that you spent more time contemplating that opening scene than the writer(s) did? :idunno:

:chuckle:

Maybe I'm just too appalled with the concept that it might not have been intentional... That it really was that cheesy. lain:

Sawyer's dialog was almost nonsensical regarding his expectations of her conduct inside that brief scene...bizarre.

Maybe it was as simple as them just having some fun, maybe it was slightly more, clearly pointing towards the facade/s. Bit I'm kind of bummed they cut out the last bit where she shouted "you'll nevva catch me, coppers!!" and went out in a 2-minute blaze of gunfire. In slow motion.

I do think that Sawyers "Hollywood" mug was a tip off. No way they'd include a prop like that by chance (the mugs were black and white, BTW), and I can't see that it'd have any significance besides being a nod towards the Hollywooding of the episode.

 

[zoo22]

Keep in mind that the entire sideways reality seems to be off or askew in some strange way. And it isn't a time-line that split in 2004 with the non-crash of flight 815, instead it's a time-line that split in 1977 when Juliette detonated the bomb or whatever she did in that hole (we are still not totally sure what happened there). Therefore there would be almost 30 years of a schism in time. Something clearly isn't "right" in the sideways reality and that's why I suspect that our hero's in the "normal" reality will be the ones that need to prevail in someway to set things straight again.

Oh, for sure. Askew. Some realities split off there with Juliette (I think)... I'm surprised we haven't seen it go further south in LA so far.

The frustrating thing for me about the LA reality is that I just don't care all that much about these "new" old characters. Maybe if there was another season to go I'd feel like investing more in them, but really I'm more interested in seeing what's going on on the island. Most of the LA scenes seem too concise and contrived for me... Too many "oh, look, it's Liam at the police station asking Sawyer about Charlie!" moments. I enjoyed those connections a lot in the earlier seasons, but I expect them now, and there are too many... Too much information jammed into too little time. It's too tight.

Though I really did like the premiere and Locke's and Ben's episodes, particularly Locke's. And I'm looking forward to a Sun/Jin Kwon/Paik episode, which I have a feeling might be more revealing/surprising than others. I'm not sure that they're married?

I think the LA scenes will begin to change soon. I'm figuring they'll bend back/merge somehow, probably connected to whoever or whatever is in that locked Widmore room. I kind of wonder if he came from the same time as we're looking at in LA or not. I'm interested to find out if both realities are directly effecting one another.

 

[The Graphite]

You know, I've been thinking about the fact that Matthew Fox (Jack) has stated more than once, and even since early on, that he is the only cast member who knows specifically how the show will end, and in fact, that he knows what the final shot will look like.

Now, it could be braggadoccio... but if that were the case, someone would have shot him down. Instead, no one, including the producers have denied his claim. (At least as far as I'm able to discern.)

Now, if some writer or even a producer had merely told him what they thought the ending might be like (seasons in advance), that would be one thing.... Fox would have surely known that plans and intentions can change, especially over multiple years. But to actually say publicly that you know what the final shot of the last episode "will look like?"

What if they actually already shot the final scene for the show, long ago - maybe even during the first season - with Jack in the scene??? Now, wouldn't that be the bomb! (No pun intended!)

That is exactly the kind of gutsy producing that would fit Carlton and Cuse to a T. I would not be surprised. And it would allow them to have a shot of the actors as they looked 7 or 8 years ago, if that is what is actually needed for the series ending (and considering the way this story has gone so far, I would not be surprised in the least!)

 

[Nathon Detroit]

You know, I've been thinking about the fact that Matthew Fox (Jack) has stated more than once, and even since early on, that he is the only cast member who knows specifically how the show will end, and in fact, that he knows what the final shot will look like.

Now, it could be braggadoccio... but if that were the case, someone would have shot him down. Instead, no one, including the producers have denied his claim. (At least as far as I'm able to discern.)

Now, if some writer or even a producer had merely told him what they thought the ending might be like (seasons in advance), that would be one thing.... Fox would have surely known that plans and intentions can change, especially over multiple years. But to actually say publicly that you know what the final shot of the last episode "will look like?"

What if they actually already shot the final scene for the show, long ago - maybe even during the first season - with Jack in the scene??? Now, wouldn't that be the bomb! (No pun intended!)

That is exactly the kind of gutsy producing that would fit Carlton and Cuse to a T. I would not be surprised. And it would allow them to have a shot of the actors as they looked 7 or 8 years ago, if that is what is actually needed for the series ending (and considering the way this story has gone so far, I would not be surprised in the least!)

That is a theory that I have heard some folks toying with.... that the final scene of the series will be the first scene of the series i.e., Jack opening his eyes in the jungle.

I wish that theory hadn't been "spilled" because that would be a cool way to end it all.

 

[The Graphite]

Actually, ironically, I had not thought of that - namely that the last shot will be the first shot that we already saw. I had in mind a secret shot that was done back then which has been locked in a vault all this time, waiting for the series to end.

So, I'm afraid you just unleased that specific theory yourself....

 

[zoo22]

That is a theory that I have heard some folks toying with.... that the final scene of the series will be the first scene of the series i.e., Jack opening his eyes in the jungle.

I wish that theory hadn't been "spilled" because that would be a cool way to end it all.

I'd thought that LOST would end on Jack's eye since watching the first season. I've become torn on it though... Now part of me thinks it would be too obvious.

The original title of LOST was "The Circle."

I do think it will end with an eye, and I can't think of a better eye to end on than the first. Especially considering that Fox supposedly knows the ending, it sure makes a lot of sense.

But he might know the end just because they thought he needed to for his own character development. Or it could be a ruse. They've let out false/misleading information in the past.

 

[zoo22]

I wonder what is locked in Widmores Sub?? Could it be Aaron? Could it be Anthony Cooper? Could it be Desmond? Could it be Sawyer from the other timeline??? :think:

Ha!!! I love that the show is totally wacky.... to me... that's what makes it so fun. Pure and total escapism.

If it was Locke, then there'd be Locke, un-Locke and dead Locke on the island.

It could be Captain Kirk. He's good to have on your side in a battle.

Or Yoda. Widmore would be very smart to bring Yoda along. Even though he's so small, you'd be surprised at what Yoda can accomplish.

 

[Town Heretic]

Re: what's locked in Whitmore's sub.

If it was Locke, then there'd be Locke, un-Locke and dead Locke on the island.

It could be Captain Kirk. He's good to have on your side in a battle.

Or Yoda. Widmore would be very smart to bring Yoda along. Even though he's so small, you'd be surprised at what Yoda can accomplish.

I thought it might be New Coke at first.

Or maybe a pair of parachute paints.

Or Conan Obrien's Tonight Show.

Probably not though. :think:

There are some things even the island can't raise from the dead...like Charlie Sheen's self restraint.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

If it was Locke, then there'd be Locke, un-Locke and dead Locke on the island.

Ooooo... a trinity of Lockes!

Or Yoda. Widmore would be very smart to bring Yoda along. Even though he's so small, you'd be surprised at what Yoda can accomplish.

No doubt! Did you see Yoda battle with a light saber?? Moves he had, yes?

 

[Town Heretic]

Maybe there's a pony in there...

lain:

And it's free. If you can imagine it.

 

[The Graphite]

I'd thought that LOST would end on Jack's eye since watching the first season. I've become torn on it though... Now part of me thinks it would be too obvious.

The original title of LOST was "The Circle."

I do think it will end with an eye, and I can't think of a better eye to end on than the first. Especially considering that Fox supposedly knows the ending, it sure makes a lot of sense.

But he might know the end just because they thought he needed to for his own character development. Or it could be a ruse. They've let out false/misleading information in the past.

Also, an eye is a circle within a circle within a circle.

 

[Oh no... it's Sozo]

I hope nobody comes out of the closet. It would ruin the show.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I hope nobody comes out of the closet. It would ruin the show.

Well... there already was the Tom Friendly scene. :vomit:

Thankfully, he was a bad guy who the good guys ran over with a van.

 

[zoo22]

Ooooo... a trinity of Lockes!

lain:

I'd actually love to see that. The door opening and Locke rolling out.. All the Lockes on the island. Plus it'd be awesome to see how Terry O'Quinn handled it.

Poor Locke... I do hope somehow to see him wind up with some kind of resolution in all of the island end-shenanigans. He was the survivor who had the largest relationship with the island, cared about it the most, wanted to participate with it and understand. And as far as we know, isn't getting to see how it all comes together and what it all might mean, let alone play a(n active) role.

Thinking about when SmokeyLocke told Ben that Locke's last thought as Ben killed him was "I don't understand." ... What an awful way to go out. In a sad motel room, no identity left, having just gone through all he went through, being murdered... Just wanting to understand.

Maybe he'll circle back around.

No doubt! Did you see Yoda battle with a light saber?? Moves he had, yes?

Exactly. I really think Widmore would be smart to bring him along. That little guy can do some damage. And he's smart, too... It'd be hard to pull the wool over his eyes! Yoda: That's my prediction. ...Yoda. You read it here first.