Lookin' For A Fight!

[quip]

Depends on how you 'interpret' that

Since I was speaking of a more or less impersonal principle or 'way', as that which the 'tao' represents,....we could also correlate this with the 'logos' as understood in the greek philosophical tradition, which refers to that universal logic, thought, plan, purpose, wisdom, reason, natural principle behind creation and that at the heart of all movement.

Jesus as the 'God-Man' takes it to another level of course,...depending on your 'Christology'.

Are you referring to the "or-else" level? :devil:

 

[freelight]

honing our terms ................

honing our terms ................

Are you referring to the "or-else" level? :devil:

Perhaps, but more like an "other-than" perspective. If I with many other philosophers sees the divine principle (logos, om, tao, Buddha-nature, spirit, consciousness, energy,....call it what you like) as 'non-personal' in essence, yet may take on or operate thru the vehicle of 'personality',....such is a matter of recognition.

Note that I stated the 'tao as a principle is 'unchallengable' (I meant that as a self-existing, tacit principle,....its self-evident in nature and in one's own experience). Pj claimed that "Jesus Christ is supremely more so" - well,...I think that is more 'challengable' by way of how this is being qualified or 'proved' for that matter, since it is more complex an ordeal to prove a Jesus Christ historically, let alone what 'doctrinal-beliefs' we associate with this personality.

Growing up in Christ-traditions, I've ever held my respect for 'Jesus', but with me he's not so tied down or crammed into some orthodox mold or creed, since to me Jesus represents the fullness and fluidity of both humanity and divinity embodied in one individual, no matter how many church councils dissect and debate his constitution.

I hold to both the impersonal and personal aspects of Deity and Man for that matter, which Jesus so wonderfully embodies, which by the way is the proto-typal example for us to follow, as we embody, express and reveal our own human and divine qualities and attributes. The perfected Man is the God's image and likeness revealed and identified, in spirit and form. Jesus as the Last or Second Adam,...is the fulfillment of man returning to his original nature and identity as perfected in God.

 

[patrick jane]

Perhaps, but more like an "other-than" perspective. If I with many other philosophers sees the divine principle (logos, om, tao, Buddha-nature, spirit, consciousness, energy,....call it what you like) as 'non-personal' in essence, yet may take on or operate thru the vehicle of 'personality',....such is a matter of recognition.

Note that I stated the 'tao as a principle is 'unchallengable' (I meant that as a self-existing, tacit principle,....its self-evident in nature and in one's own experience). Pj claimed that "Jesus Christ is supremely more so" - well,...I think that is more 'challengable' by way of how this is being qualified or 'proved' for that matter, since it is more complex an ordeal to prove a Jesus Christ historically, let alone what 'doctrinal-beliefs' we associate with this personality.

I thought about all the different things that you suggest for folks to study, EVERYTHING BUT THE BIBLE. It occurred to me that if one were to try taking your advice they would be sucked into a Black Hole of philosophy and vain deceit led by you.


Colossians 2:8 KJV - 2 Corinthians 11:13-14 KJV -

 

[freelight]

I thought about all the different things that you suggest for folks to study, EVERYTHING BUT THE BIBLE. It occurred to me that if one were to try taking your advice they would be sucked into a Black Hole of philosophy and vain deceit led by you.


Colossians 2:8 KJV - 2 Corinthians 11:13-14 KJV -

I think recognizing and resting on the foundation of reality itself, is a pretty safe and peaceful space to occupy,....just abiding as this presence of awareness. I can be still, and knowing, and that is all that is essential, because it is the only ground in which any perception or knowledge inheres. This living presence is not a 'black hole of philosophy',...but a luminous light, its all -encompassing.

There is not 'vain deceit' in recognizing this light of consciousness

The Bible is certainly a religious book included in the study of 'comparative religion', I've never excluded it, neither do I promote it ALONE as the one and only source of truth, since the wisdom of the ages (Theosophy) has traces and lineages thru-out many different religious traditions. Truth must be universal by nature, for it consists of what actually exists as a foundation and principle behind all existence and all experience or knowledge.

 

[patrick jane]

I think recognizing and resting on the foundation of reality itself, is a pretty safe and peaceful space to occupy,....just abiding as this presence of awareness. I can be still, and knowing, and that is all that is essential, because it is the only ground in which any perception or knowledge inheres. This living presence is not a 'black hole of philosophy',...but a luminous light, its all -encompassing.

There is not 'vain deceit' in recognizing this light of consciousness

The Bible is certainly a religious book included in the study of 'comparative religion', I've never excluded it, neither do I promote it ALONE as the one and only source of truth, since the wisdom of the ages (Theosophy) has traces and lineages thru-out many different religious traditions. Truth must be universal by nature, for it consists of what actually exists as a foundation and principle behind all existence and all experience or knowledge.

Sounds like you are self-actualized !

 

[ok doser]

Sounds like you are self-actualized !

doesn't that come right before spontaneous combustion?

better step back a little

 

[freelight]

Sounds like you are self-actualized !

I don't know.

However,....there is no experience of any-thing apart from the 'Self'. Whatever arises as anything (thought, image, form, concept, feeling, etc.) arises in the Self. By 'Self' here I refer to that which sees and knows, the light of awareness itself. Note,...that no-thing, not even 'God' (or rather your concept, image or assumption of 'God') can exist without YOU

Therefore the question is always going back to the heart-source of the "I". The "I" that sees and knows. The "I" that can say "I Am" because awareness is intrinsic to its very nature. Such is the God-consciousness and Identity shining within mind.

 

[OCTOBER23]

The Greatest Challenge is to Overcome yourself.

 

[PureX]

Blessings in the Tao

Enjoy the natural flow of life......for it will carry you......

I was wondering about making a thread here but not about battling others per se,...but maybe challenging one's own belief systems, a free for all theology bash, or just questioning our perception of reality in general. It will be about 'contesting' our beliefs, opinons, biases....really being intellectually honest about facing them, and be willing to change our POV if we need to in order to conform better to reality. Will mull over a good title......

Namaste

I think those who will do this already are, and everyone else will misunderstand and resist.

In a way, what you're describing is the sum of TOL. And, well, you see how that's going. :chuckle:

 

[PureX]

I thought about all the different things that you suggest for folks to study, EVERYTHING BUT THE BIBLE. It occurred to me that if one were to try taking your advice they would be sucked into a Black Hole of philosophy and vain deceit led by you.


Colossians 2:8 KJV - 2 Corinthians 11:13-14 KJV -

That "black hole of philosophy and conceit" doesn't exclude the Bible, either. It is what happens when our minds seek to capture and 'own' a truth that expands far beyond us.

The tao can't be "understood". Any more than your Biblical "God/Christ" can. Because all these ideological conveniences are just man's way of characterizing the Great Truth: a truth that spans beyond what our own human minds can comprehend.

The truth is what is. The tao is what is, and also what isn't. We humans can't grasp this. Yet we embody it as all things do.

 

[freelight]

Brahman

Brahman

That "black hole of philosophy and conceit" doesn't exclude the Bible, either. It is what happens when our minds seek to capture and 'own' a truth that expands far beyond us.

The tao can't be "understood". Any more than your Biblical "God/Christ" can. Because all these ideological conveniences are just man's way of characterizing the Great Truth: a truth that spans beyond what our own human minds can comprehend.

The truth is what is. The tao is what is, and also what isn't. We humans can't grasp this. Yet we embody it as all things do.

Indeed,....our conceptual knowledge of language, images and forms can only go so far as descriptions of that which is beyond it, or that to which such symbols refer.

I'm diving more into the Impersonal and Personal aspects of 'God' (the Tao, Spirit, Energy, Infinite Intelligence, Soul) from a Theosophical perspective. Hinduism especially recognizes the 'Nirguna Brahman' (God without attributes; The Absolute, Formless, Pure Spirit) and 'Saguna Brahman' (God with attributes, qualities, form, personality, etc.) - so we see that Deity may include both no-personality and personality. - this can be differentiated more in the manifold world of forms and appearances (as intelligence inter-acts within the whole). Nevertheless 'Brahman is The Universal Self, the Highest God in Hinduism.

Since our Taoism and Hinduism threads have been purged, perhaps I shall resurrect something along those lines soon, along with Theosophical explorations

 

[Zeke]

I thought about all the different things that you suggest for folks to study, EVERYTHING BUT THE BIBLE. It occurred to me that if one were to try taking your advice they would be sucked into a Black Hole of philosophy and vain deceit led by you.


Colossians 2:8 KJV - 2 Corinthians 11:13-14 KJV -

The Spirit becomes all things to people/cultures, That Spirit met you on the same grounds from the perspective and culture you happened to be born in, The only vain being practiced is by you and the strict and narrow way you perceive the Spirits ability to interact with people around the globe in only a westernized version of what a Christian should believe or act like.

And the inability to rightly divide the letter verses the spirit, which has no labels or dogma/doctrine because when one enters that domain all things are possible, the need to be right losses it's importance because life proves we mature in our understanding, realizing everything we experience is for a reason we might not grasp the why of it all in this tabernacle we see through darkly but the still small voice within keeps us in balance if we will just still the mind with its mental programming, Romans 11:33-35, that Love passes all of mans theology and understanding, 1John 4:18.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Okay, so let's say there are three curtains...

Then how are you supposed to choose door number one?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I don't do dishwashers. We have one, but it hasn't run in 20 years.

A sedentary life is not good for children.
You should get him (her?) to run more often.

 

[Jerome84]

The apocalypse is very close. Within 100 years. Probably within 50 years.

 

[PureX]

Indeed,....our conceptual knowledge of language, images and forms can only go so far as descriptions of that which is beyond it, or that to which such symbols refer.

Why I love art.

Art is the process through which we humans seek to explore that mysterious realm of being that exists beyond what our current languages and idealizations can label and conceptualize, away. Art is attempting to experience it WITHOUT labeling it into the oblivion of our presumed understanding.

It's a weird thing that when we humans think we understand something , we effectively have driven it from our awareness, and into our memory paradigms. "X is this". And now we think we understand it, and so no longer need to pay attention to our experience of it. And so we lose touch with reality, as we label it away. Away into the oblivion of our imagined "understanding".

Artists look for ways of stripping away those labels and presumptions of understanding so that we can once again experience things as they are, and as they were before we relegated them to unconsciousness by our labeling, and by our presumptions of understanding.

I love art!

Since our Taoism and Hinduism threads have been purged, perhaps I shall resurrect something along those lines soon, along with Theosophical explorations

I also love the 'cool fresh air' of taoism, very much. But it becomes impossible to explain it to anyone, because it's about letting go of our need to understand and explain things so that we can allow things to just be what they are. … Including ourselves.

Humility, honesty, spontaneity … this is taoism.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I haven't studied Tao.

From some book titles I saw in the bookstore, I always thought it has something to do with Winnie the Pooh fixing a motorcycle.

 

[ok doser]

you can only achieve poohness when you realize that you are the motorcycle

 

[genuineoriginal]

Oh bother.

 

[PureX]

I haven't studied Tao.

From some book titles I saw in the bookstore, I always thought it has something to do with Winnie the Pooh fixing a motorcycle.

That was zen. The book you saw was titled, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". It's actually a very good book. And what it's really about is a man recovering from a mental breakdown brought on by trying to grasp the ungraspable mystery of being.

One of my all time favorite mini-stories comes from that book.

The author and his wife were walking one day on the Navajo reservation in New Mexico with an old Navajo friend of theirs. They were just walking along, and chatting, when a dog happened to run across the path up ahead of them. The three of them noticed this, and after a moment the author's wife asked their Navajo friend what kind of dog that was.

The Navajo man stopped walking and just looked at her for a long moment with a puzzled expression on his face. … And then finally he replied; "That's a good dog". (The Navajos never bred their dogs for types.)

And whenever I think of that story from the Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance book, I think of a good friend of mine, who is also an old Navajo man. Who looked at me as we were teasing each other one time, and said; "Why don't all your round eyes go back to Europe where you came from!" … then he added, "But leave the plumbing".

I love old Navajos.