Lets fact check "Faith" the verb....

brewmama

brewmama

New member
Faither said:
I my experience, your son is already getting help. If I were to inject what I know to him at this point it won't work. I "hope" and pray he has someone like I had.

So were back to you. Do you feel you need to work the steps? Have you tried everything else?
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I guess I just decided to do them because it's part of the program. Maybe I don't need them.
 
F

Faither

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brewmama said:
I guess I just decided to do them because it's part of the program. Maybe I don't need them.
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Without explaining the steps and what they do you won't understand this analogy. But I'll say it anyway.

If you had a problem with your leg, and some tells you it should be amputated, you would want to make sure you've tried all the easier and softer ways to treat the problem first, right? Like I said, the steps are a last resort to treat an insane state of mind (ism). Do you qualify to do them? I mean your here in this forum, I assume you have a relationship with God, Is that not working, and God is drawing you to start a new relationship? Or, is it working very well, and God is drawing you to a deeper commitment?

Either way, you should try everything you can think of, before doing the steps.
 
brewmama

brewmama

New member
Faither said:
Without explaining the steps and what they do you won't understand this analogy. But I'll say it anyway.

If you had a problem with your leg, and some tells you it should be amputated, you would want to make sure you've tried all the easier and softer ways to treat the problem first, right? Like I said, the steps are a last resort to treat an insane state of mind (ism). Do you qualify to do them? I mean your here in this forum, I assume you have a relationship with God? Is that not working, and God is drawing you to start a new relationship? Or, is it working very well, and God is drawing you to a deeper commitment?

Either way, you should try everything you can think of, before doing the steps.
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Well, in that case, I won't do them. I have no complaints about my relationship with God.
 
H

Hawkins

Active member
Faith as a concept is delivered from Hebrew in OT.

In the Septuagint the verb pisteuō generally translates the Hebrew word ’āman (hiphil, “believe, trust”).

So don't sound as if the concept is delivered from NT. It's an old concept in Hebrew which got translated to Greek. The term with its concept is then re-used in NT.
 
F

Faither

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Hawkins said:
Faith as a concept is delivered from Hebrew in OT.

In the Septuagint the verb pisteuō generally translates the Hebrew word ’āman (hiphil, “believe, trust”).

So don't sound as if the concept is delivered from NT. It's an old concept in Hebrew which got translated to Greek. The term with its concept is then re-used in NT.
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There are two words in the Hebrew for Faith.

1) running to the shelter of a mother birds wings. This highlights the continuous action of running to something.

2) To lean upon a staff with all your weight on it. This again is an action that is continual.

The Verb "pisteuo" means, A personal surrender to Him. And a life inspired by such surrender. A continuous action that could not be translated into English, because we have no word for the verb, Pisteuo.

If you notice in the strongs the definition of "pisteuo", which I think is watered down. It says: "Pisteuo means "not just to believe". they made that statement because they knew "believe" can't fully define Pisteuo. they also continue with definitions like, "to place confidence in", "To trust, and signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence," "commit unto", "commit to ones trust", be committed unto". All these definitions of pisteuo are right in line with the Hebrew, "To lean on a staff with all your weight behind it."

So I don't think I was giving the impression Pisteuo started in the NT. As you can see I know better than that. And also, Believe and trust are nouns which are "pistis" in Greek.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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Faither said:
Hey nick.
What specifically are you interested in?
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Your point. I know you have one. Just spit it out. Don't beat around the bush.

James got straight to the point. I'll show you my faith by my works....was not Abraham justified by offering up his son?
 
F

Faither

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Nick M said:
Your point. I know you have one. Just spit it out. Don't beat around the bush.

James got straight to the point. I'll show you my faith by my works....was not Abraham justified by offering up his son?
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I've made over 30 individual points. But the elephant in the room is no one understands or seemingly wants to understand what NT pisteuo is. I really had to point that out?
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
"The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Romans 8:7).

If a Christian does not realize his identification with Christ in His death, he does not know true consecration. Crucifixion is the path to, and foundation of, consecration. The deeper truths are not entered into through consecration--they are its basis.

"The price of consecration is crucifixion."

"'Present yourself unto God as alive from the dead' (Romans 6:13). This is the true ground of consecration. For believers to 'consecrate themselves to God' [or to 'surrender "their" life to Christ'] before they have learnt their union with Christ in death and resurrection is only to present to God the members of the natural man, which He cannot use. Only those 'alive from the dead'--that is, having appropriated their likeness with Him in death--are bidden to present their members as instruments unto God."

"The modern teaching of consecration, which is tantamount to the consecration of the 'old man,' seeks to bypass the death sentence and therefore only leads to frustration and failure. When, however, you and I are prepared, in simple humility, to make the fact of our death with Christ our daily basis of life and service, there is nothing that can prevent the uprising and outflow of new life, and meet the need of thirsty souls around us." -J.C.M.
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S

Samie

New member
Faither said:
An optimal discussion would be for someone to start from "A" the beginning. And that is where we are being called by the Father to surrender our lives to Jesus. Important to remember at this point we are not in Christ, and He is not in us. Therefore, don't start a conversation with a bunch of Scriptures that aren't ours at this point. (the beginning) Rom. 8:9 identifies this state of being.
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You are saying that while we are not in Christ, "we are being called by the Father to surrender our lives to Jesus".

Now, if one is not in Christ, he is spiritually dead because Christ is our life (Col 3:4).

So how can one, while yet spiritually dead, hear the spiritual call of the Father?
 
Nick M

Nick M

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Samie said:
So how can one, while yet spiritually dead, hear the spiritual call of the Father?
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False dilemma. We hear the gospel spoken by somebody in dead flesh.

Romans 10

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

People choose to reject him.

21 But to Israel he says:“All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.”
 
Nick M

Nick M

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Since when do ears not work who do not have his life? You hear and you are dead.
 
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