"Let Us Make Man In Our Image"

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider and Greetings Jamie,

TrevorL, at that time the LORD God did NOT call Himself a "father'. A Father is not a father without children.
The Father/Son relationship in the Godhead is an ANALOGY or a PICTURE of a RELATIONSHIP. It is God using HUMAN terms to describe the members of the Godhead.

My understanding of why God is called the Father is because He is the father of all, of all creation, but especially is He God the Father because He gave birth to a Son, the Lord Jesus Christ Luke 1:35. This is not only a HUMAN term but Divine and a Divine relationship, real and true. God before the creation, because of his foreknowledge anticipated the birth of His Son through Mary, and thus the title God the Father is appropriate before creation.

God did NOT invite "others" to take part in the creation of man.

To whom then was God speaking in Genesis 1:26?
Genesis 1:26 (KJV): 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

The Word of the LORD was God and with God at the beginning of human history. The Word made everything that was made. The Most High was not made, but angels were made. Angels were made by the Word.

I assume you are alluding to John 1:1-3. I agree that the Word of God pre-existed, but I do not believe that Jesus pre-existed, or God the Son. Yes the world was created by the Word of God:
Psalm 33:6-9 (KJV): 6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Isaiah 57:15-19 (KJV): 15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. 16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made. 17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart. 18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners. 19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.

This translation tells another story:

" For this is what the high and exalted One says— he who lives forever, whose name is holy: “I live in a high and holy place, but also with the one who is contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite. I will not accuse them forever, nor will I always be angry, for then they would faint away because of me— the very people I have created" (Isa.57:15-16; NIV).​

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Jerry,

This translation tells another story:

" For this is what the high and exalted One says— he who lives forever, whose name is holy: “I live in a high and holy place, but also with the one who is contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite. I will not accuse them forever, nor will I always be angry, for then they would faint away because of me— the very people I have created" (Isa.57:15-16; NIV).​

Perhaps you should check if the ISV is the better rendition, and if not put it back on the shelf and use a more accurate translation. This is your second doubtful quotation from the ISV. The ESV does not agree with the ISV in that particular, but I would need to check other sources.
Isaiah 57:15-16 (ESV): 15 For thus says the One who is high and lifted up,
who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy:
“I dwell in the high and holy place,
and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit,
to revive the spirit of the lowly,
and to revive the heart of the contrite.
16 For I will not contend forever,
nor will I always be angry;
for the spirit would grow faint before me,
and the breath of life that I made.
I am still at a loss as to the relevance to this thread and subject of your mention of Isaiah 57. Neither do I see the difference between the translations here as being greatly significant. Perhaps you could clarify.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[jamie]

I assume you are alluding to John 1:1-3. I agree that the Word of God pre-existed, but I do not believe that Jesus pre-existed, or God the Son.

I never said a human preexisted creation or that he was a son before he was born.

I have no idea where you got that from anything I said.

Maybe you can explain?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I am still at a loss as to the relevance to this thread and subject of your mention of Isaiah 57. Neither do I see the difference between the translations here as being greatly significant. Perhaps you could clarify.

At the time when Isaiah 57:15 was written the saved did not go to heaven to be with the LORD but instead to Abraham's bosom (Lk.16:22-23). So the One mentioned here is not speaking of men who died and went to heaven:

"For this is what the high and exalted One says— he who lives forever, whose name is holy: “I live in a high and holy place, but also with the one who is contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite" (Isa.57:5).​

Of course the One referred to is spoken of here:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

The Mighthy God is none other than JHWH:

"Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name" (Jer.32:18).​

 

[jamie]

At the time when Isaiah 57:15 was written the saved did not go to heaven to be with the LORD but instead to Abraham's bosom (Lk.16:22-23).

What does the phrase "Abraham's bosom" imply? What do you think that means. For example when Sarai gave her maid into Abraham's bosom what does that mean?

Does it mean into a close personal relationship?

And when did Jesus say humans could have a close relationship with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Has Abraham been made perfect apart from us?

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider and Greetings Jamie,
My understanding of why God is called the Father is because He is the father of all, of all creation, but especially is He God the Father because He gave birth to a Son, the Lord Jesus Christ Luke 1:35. This is not only a HUMAN term but Divine and a Divine relationship, real and true. God before the creation, because of his foreknowledge anticipated the birth of His Son through Mary, and thus the title God the Father is appropriate before creation.

You can believe what you want, but you're not listening to scripture. God never calls Himself "father of all creation". You're saying something that the scripture does not.
Is it a HUMAN term to describe the relationship in the Godhead, yes... I said that.

You can say that, God did not reveal it that way.

To whom then was God speaking in Genesis 1:26?
Genesis 1:26 (KJV): 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

The Godhead is made up of three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It's not too hard to understand.

I assume you are alluding to John 1:1-3. I agree that the Word of God pre-existed, but I do not believe that Jesus pre-existed, or God the Son. Yes the world was created by the Word of God:
Psalm 33:6-9 (KJV): 6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

The Word was made flesh. Once again, clearly and simply explained in scripture.

 

[jamie]

The Godhead is made up of three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It's not too hard to understand.

Why was one of the three persons Spirit but not the other two?

 

[Right Divider]

Why was one of the three persons Spirit but not the other two?

Because that is how God decided to reveal it or express it, whether you like it or not.

 

[jamie]

Because that is how God decided to reveal it or express it, whether you like it or not.

It's my understanding that both the Father and the born again Son are holy.

Is that not your understanding?

 

[themuzicman]

In Hebrew, the plural is often used to make a singular greater. This is frequently the case with "Elohym", the Hebrew word used for God. "Elohym" is plural, even though we are only speaking of one God. It is possible that the plural "us" is used in that same vein, to indicate God speaking of his own greatness in creating man.

 

[JudgeRightly]

In Hebrew, the plural is often used to make a singular greater. This is frequently the case with "Elohym", the Hebrew word used for God. "Elohym" is plural, even though we are only speaking of one God. It is possible that the plural "us" is used in that same vein, to indicate God speaking of his own greatness in creating man.

El = God (singular)
Ellah = God (duality)
Elohim = God (plurality; in Gen 1:1 and when talking about God in general, it means 3)

There are a few words in Hebrew for our word, "one." There's "one" (singular), both yachad and bad, and then there's echad, which means one of plurality.

Every instance where God is referred to as "one God," the "one" is of a plurality, echad, such as "one people," "the people answered with one voice," "the Lord is One," "Pharoah's dreams are one."

"Let Us make man in Our image" is not just an example of the "royal we," it's the ORIGIN of the "royal we."

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[Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov]

The Creation account found in B‘réshiyt/Genesis chapter 1 is a poem made up of six stanzas. The first stanza is what is recognized as Verses 1-5; the second stanza is 6-8; the third stanza is 9-13; the fourth stanza is 14-19; the fifth stanza is 20-23; and the sixth stanza is 24-31. Who/what was God speaking to at the beginning of this stanza?

B’réshiyt 1:24-26:

וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים תוֹצֵא הָאָרֶץ נֶפֶשׁ חָיָּה לְמִינָהּ בְּהֵמָה וָרֶמֶשׂ וְחַיְתוֹ־אֶרֶץ לְמִינָהּ וַיְהִי־כֵן׃ וַיַּעַשׂ אֱלֹהִים אֶת־חַיַּת הָאָרֶץ לְמִינָהּ וְאֶת־הַבְּהֵמָה לְמִינָהּ וְאֵת כָּל־רֶמֶשׂ הָאֲדָמָה לְמִינֵהוּ וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים כִּי־טוֹב׃ וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם בְּצַלְמֵנוּ כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ וְיִרְדּוּ בִדְגַת הַיָּם וּבְעוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם וּבַבְּהֵמָה וּבְכָל־הָרֶמֶשׂ הָרֹמֵשׂ עַל־הָאָרֶץ׃
Vayyoʾmer ʾĔlohiym totzéʾ haʾaretz nefesh ḥayyah l’miynah b’hémah varemes v’ḥay’to-ʾeretz l’miynah vay’hiy-ḵén: Vayyaʿas ʾĔlohiym ʾet-ḥayyat haʾaretz l’miynah v’et-hab’hémah l’miynah v’et kal-remes haʾădamah l’miynéhu vayyar’ ʾĔlohiym kiy-tov: Vayyoʾmer ʾĔlohiym naʿăseh ʾadam b’tzal’ménu kid’muténu v’yir’du vid’gat hayyam uv’of hashamayim uvab’ḥémah uv’ḵal-haremes haromés ʿal-haʾaretz:
​

“And God said to the earth,'You will bring forth life according to its kind; cattle, insects and the beasts of the earth according to its kind;' and it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to its kind, and the cattle according to its kind, and all creeping things of the ground according to their kinds; and God saw that it was good. And God said, 'We will make man by our blueprint as we designed it; and they will rule over the fish of the sea, and the birds of the sky, and over the animals, and over all the insects that creep upon the earth, and over all the earth.'”

At the start of this stanza God was speaking to the earth. God commanded the earth to bring forth life. The earth obeyed God’s command and brought forth life, and God saw that it was good. Still speaking to the earth, God told the earth that they would make man together; partly by the earths design, and partly by God’s design. Man would be a higher life form than the rest of the creatures on the earth, and would rule over the earth.

There is no mystery surrounding this passage; there is no ambiguity in this passage; there is no trinity in this passage. The p’shat reading of this passage is perfectly clear; it begins with God speaking to the earth, and God continues speaking to the earth. The only problem that arises is when translators inject their own theological bias to twist it to fit their theological perspective. When read as it is actually written, it is as plain as the nose on your face.

 

[Ktoyou]

Really? Well, we are told it was the holy Spirit who caused Mary to conceive.

Did the Father do anything or was the procreation just between the holy Spirit and Mary?

Also, do trinitarians believe that the Father is not Spirit or do they believe the Father is not holy?

Mary was not involved in any genetic manner at all. this is part of modern stupid, knowing just enough to be dangerous, She merely carried God in the flesh

 

[Jonahdog]

Mary was not involved in any genetic manner at all. this is part of modern stupid, knowing just enough to be dangerous, She merely carried God in the flesh

And how do you know this?

 

[Ktoyou]

And how do you know this?

I am enlightened.

 

[jamie]

Mary was not involved in any genetic manner at all. this is part of modern stupid, knowing just enough to be dangerous, She merely carried God in the flesh

If that were true, then since the Father is not human the Son would not be human. Humans only come from humans.

I wonder whose blood flowed through the baby's veins. Oh wait, it must have been the Father's blood, right?

 

[Ktoyou]

There is no mystery surrounding this passage; there is no ambiguity in this passage; there is no trinity in this passage. The p’shat reading of this passage is perfectly clear; it begins with God speaking to the earth, and God continues speaking to the earth. The only problem that arises is when translators inject their own theological bias to twist it to fit their theological perspective. When read as it is actually written, it is as plain as the nose on your face.
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Then, the mystery would be the earth as a thinking being. Your translating ability adds nothing

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There is no mystery surrounding this passage; there is no ambiguity in this passage; there is no trinity in this passage.

Let us look at this verse:

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Gen.2:7).​

There the LORD made man and here is what He said about that:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" (Gen.1:26).​

It was "us" who made man in the image of God.

Who is the "us"?

Thanks!

 

[Ktoyou]

If that were true, then since the Father is not human the Son would not be human. Humans only come from humans.

I wonder whose blood flowed through the baby's veins. Oh wait, it must have been the Father's blood, right?

You need to think better. All is possible with God.

You do have a propensity for assuming human logic always has to provide answers.