Jesus: The end and the fulfillment of the Old Testament
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Right.
As you said...then one should act like it...
Yet exactly how does that life of faith look like?
Any change before and after?
If you need laws, rules and religion, chances are you are NOT led by the Holy Spirit.
Those that are led by the Holy Spirit are not religious. They are resting and trusting in what Christ has accomplished in their name and on their behalf, Hebrews 4:10.
there you go, your lazy mentality faith.
Robert,
Bottom line of those "faith only" believers, you, Mads, and B57 and his follower Nanja, are all the same; lazy faith.
You guys dont accept the responsibilities that Jesus gave to His followers.
this sums up your "faith only" faith.
wow, I did a good job describing your "faith only" so clear and simple, if I say so myself
this should be the quote of the year
Bottom line of those "faith only" believers, you, Mads, and B57 and his follower Nanja, are all the same; lazy faith.
You guys dont accept the responsibilities that Jesus gave to His followers.
this sums up your "faith only" faith.
wow, I did a good job describing your "faith only" so clear and simple, if I say so myself
this should be the quote of the year
Robert,
Bottom line of those "faith only" believers, you, Mads, and B57 and his follower Nanja, are all the same; lazy faith.
You guys dont accept the responsibilities that Jesus gave to His followers.
this sums up your "faith only" faith.
wow, I did a good job describing your "faith only" so clear and simple, if I say so myself
this should be the quote of the year
Calvinist do not have saving faith.
The only faith that the New Testament acknowledges is faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.
Faith in your works is worthless, Romans 4:5.
And you have a lazy faith.
Works and obedience counts for nothing in the New Testament, Romans 4:5.
God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, Philippians 3:9.
If you are not found to be "In Christ" in the judgment you will perish. To be "In Christ" means that you are resting and trusting in his righteousness and not your own.
good day Robert.
Explain your ugly, racist, anti-Semite post, Pate, to all of TOL.
Don’t NEED laws rules and religion...WANT them...as without them no one knows “If you are a believer in Jesus Christ and you have been justified, sanctified, redeemed and reconciled unto God, then you should act like it.”
It is how we express our gratitude for what was done by Him and remains for us to do to bring glory to Him, be holy, represent Him His Way...by following those very same laws rules and religion as He did and asked of us to do...
To abide in His Love...
The world hates us for it...claims the law is changed not for us or even abolished...
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To be led by the Holy Spirit is to be led by the Gospel. In the Gospel we are complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. We rest in his righteousness and in his atonement for our sins, Hebrews 4:10.
The Scripture plainly indicates that the law has been abolished for Christians, Ephesians 2:15 also Colossians 2:14.
No it doesn't, you satanic spammer.No, it does not "plainly say" that God's perfect law was abolished, deceiver, despite your spam, posting verses in isolation, deleting 3/4 of the bible, including, where it "plainly" says:
Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Psalms 111 KJV
7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.
....to "prove" his doctrine of demons."
He corrupts, perverts both Ephesians 2:15 KJV, Colossians 2:14 KJV, to prop up his satanic assertion that the perfect, holy, just, good, not void law of God, which reflects His character, is no longer in existence.
Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...
He satanically delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
He keeps satanically spamming this made up slop, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:
What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The writ of charges...
In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.
No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:
Romans 7 KJV
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
“handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.
The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.
Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."
26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.
The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.
The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!
Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ , representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.
" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"
The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.
This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.
When we talk about "nailing it to his cross", that is not the law itself, but the curse of the law, or the penalties for disobeying the Law. It was the penalty of the broken law which He rendered inoperative, not the law itself.
In that time period when a man was charged with a crime the charges against him were written down on papyrus. If he was found not guilty the papyrus was then washed down with water, removing or blotting out those charges against him, to confirm his acquittal. This abolished the written charges against the man. This is the what is referred to in "blotting out of ordinances against us" that were nailed to the Stake, not the Law itself.
The law is still God's standard of righteousness and all the requirements for the broken law remain unchanged, apart from Him.
Again-the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty.
The certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.
Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!
In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.
In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.
By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!
The Lord Jesus Christ nailed to the cross what was contrary to him...
Ephesians 2:15 KJV "the law of commandments contained in ordinances;"
Colossians 2:14 KJV "the handwriting of ordinances"
Hebrews 7:16 KJV "the law of a carnal commandment"
Hebrews 9:10 KJV "carnal ordinances;"
What the Lord Jesus Christ abolished was carnal/fleshly commandments and ordinances, and hand written ordinances=that is the context..= the decrees of exclusion established by men, which were rooted in enmity between Jew & Gentile,such as “touch not, taste not, handle not”(survey Colossians 2:21 KJV), man-made social class/caste system set in place by Oral Torah, and Jewish leaders, attempting to keep a social and religious difference between Jews and Gentiles. Ordinances/decrees were laws that were man-made. Paul was referring to man-made orders, in this verse through the term “ordinance”. These “ordinances” were, yes, indeed hostile/”hate”/”enmity”, as they restrained anyone other than “Jews” worshiping God. These ordinances made a clear separation between Jew and Gentile, by elevating one above the other, to an “elite status,” to the extent where gentiles were looked down upon, scorned, and disassociated, by Jews everywhere………..
Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for.
Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.
Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."
Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.
Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...
Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
The "secular" example of Pate's "reasoning::
Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...
Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.
Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!
The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.
Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!
Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)
Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.
And now, in wickedness, attempt to delete Genesis-John. You will lose, demon:
Matthew 24:35 KJV Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
1 Peter KJV
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.
Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."
Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.
Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...
Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
The "secular" example of Pate's "reasoning::
Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...
Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.
Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!
The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.
Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!
Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)
Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.
And now, in wickedness, attempt to delete Genesis-John. You will lose, demon:
Matthew 24:35 KJV Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
1 Peter KJV
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Heb 10:26
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left...
Yikes...no sacrifice?...
This is why you need to be "In Christ".
God can find no sin in the man that is "In Christ" Philippians 3:9.
you going in circle over and over.
You don't understand the Gospel.
In the Gospel Jesus justifies, sanctifies, redeems and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
Its over, its finished, we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.