It is not the Gospel plus your obedience. It is the Gospel plus nothing. When you add your obedience to the Gospel you have perverted the Gospel, Galatians 1:7. Jesus does not need your help to save you. Jesus saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.
Jesus, Paul and the Law
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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God's Truth
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You pervert the gospel when you preach that it is wrong to do what Jesus says to do to get saved.
Who but the devil would like that preached?
"Believe AND obey, then you are not saved"; "Believe and obey, then you are a perverter".
Now that is insane.
2 Timothy 2:26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
God's Truth
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So what Jesus taught is now perversion?!
Jesus teaches us to obey him.
…unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 5:32.
…unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 18:3.
…unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart; Matthew 18:35.
…unless you repent, you too will all perish; Luke 13:3.
… unless they are born of water and the Spirit; John 3:5.
Unless I wash you, you have no part with me; John 13:8.
...if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; Matthew 6:14
...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15
...If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples;
John 8:31
...if you do them you will be blessed; John 13:17
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love; John 15:10
...if you do what I command you are my friends; John 15:14
...if we obey His commands---we may know that we know Him; 1 John 2:3
…unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 18:3.
Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
John 10:1 [ The Good Shepherd and His Sheep ] “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.
Jesus taught the law to show you that you don't measure up to God's standards.
Paul plainly teaches that salvation is by grace (God's goodness) through faith, apart from works or obedience to the law, Ephesians 2:8.
You are adding obedience to the Gospel and in doing so you are perverting the Gospel.
God's Truth
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So God didn't really say ___? He really meant "___"?
No, you say it the way that Satan said in Genesis 3:1. Look it up.
God doesn't say 'not by obedience'.
God says not by works of the law, which means not by the purification/ceremonial works.
It is not perverted to say we have to obey God.
There is no scripture that says, "Therefore being justified by our "obedience" we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
What it does say is... "Therefore being justified by FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Romans 5:1.
We are justified by faith alone, because we are justified by CHRIST ALONE. Jesus is the justifier of the ungodly.
"Now to him that does no works (or obedience) but believes on him that justifies the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.
If you were a Christian you would know and believe these things because they are in the Bible.
popsthebuilder
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St. Paul taught we will be made holy and pure.
What is holy doesn't dwell in the same vessel as that which is vile.
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As long as we are in these Adamic bodies that are infected with sin we are sinners. A sinner is one that is not able to keep God's law. "By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.
Paul understood that he failed to keep the law and referred to himself as a sinner, Romans 7:7-25.
popsthebuilder
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God's Truth
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The law of the Spirit means that God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ", but we are not "In Christ" yet. We are still here on this earth in our Adamic bodies that are sinful.
In God's eyes those that have faith in Christ are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In our own eyes and the eyes of others we are sinners.
You continue to deceive yourself, 1 John 1:8.
popsthebuilder
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So St. Paul doesn't speak of being made righteous or holy and the law of the Spirit isn't to be listened to or followed? What is the law of the Spirit for if not guidance?
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God's Truth
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No, Paul does not say we are sinners in Christ.
Neither does he say that we are to see ourselves as sinners.
Stop preaching things that Paul does not say.
If you don't know the Word well enough, stop trying to teach it.
You deceive yourself.
That scripture is about if you don't confess and repent of your sins then you were never saved in the first place.
God's Truth
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Wow. You don't know that the saved are in Christ now?
God's Truth
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So God saying to obey Him is perverted teachings?
We are spiritually "In Christ" now, however we are still on this fallen planet in our Adamic bodies that are sinful. We have not been totally sanctified and glorified yet, Romans 8:18-27.
You seem to think that you have already arrived.
If you could obey God you would not be here on this fallen planet. You would be in heaven. Have you not noticed that God is absent from your life? Maybe you hear voices?
John didn't say that, you did.
John said, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.
God's Truth
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So you don't obey God? You don't repent of your sins, forgive others, stop committing adultery, etc?
Answer that one deceived one.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
Ugly spirit you have there. How did you get that one?