Jesus is God

[God's Truth]

You really do make yourself look stupid, find me a single dictionary, biblical dictionary, scholars claim or strongs reference that has the same definition of "king of Kings" of you.

It's not, "king of Kings". It is King of kings.

There is only one King of kings.

 

[7djengo7]

Greetings again 7djengo7,I have quoted this portion of your lengthy answer. Wisdom DOES all these things, but it is not speaking of one individual who you identify as God the Son. Jesus did not appear in the gates of a city in the time of Solomon and preach to those that passed by. Perhaps you should read Proverbs 9 carefully where the wise woman is compared with a foolish woman.

Kind regards
Trevor

Only if Wisdom is a person does Wisdom do any of those things, for only persons do any of those things. Wisdom, in Proverbs 8, does those things, therefore, Wisdom, in Proverbs 8, is a person.

Anyone who can seriously say that a thing that is not a person can cry, put forth a voice, speak, give instruction, etc., is an incorrigible fool, manifesting therein that he is incapable of thinking rationally and of accepting truth. Maybe your mind is so messed up that you actually believe that some things that are not persons can, and do, speak to you?

Proverbs 9, eh? Where we read that "A foolish woman is clamorous: she is simple, and knoweth nothing." How do you imagine that Proverbs 9 helps you to save face from your embarrassment due your abject failure regarding Proverbs 8? I suppose you also want to tell us that this is personification, no? That something that is not a person is here being called "a foolish woman"? What thing that is not a person would you say is being called "a foolish woman", then?

"Jesus did not appear in the gates of a city in the time of Solomon and preach to those that passed by."

What (if anything) do you mean by "appear"? I do not find your word, "appear", in Proverbs 8.

"Perhaps you should read Proverbs 9 carefully where the wise woman is compared with a foolish woman."

Just as we find no mention, in Proverbs 8, of any wise woman, we also, nowhere in Proverbs 9, find any mention of any wise woman. We do, however, in v. 13, find mention of "a foolish woman", see?

 

[7djengo7]

They can't be different Persons if they have the same Spirit.

• What (if anything) do you mean by "have the same Spirit"?
• Your denial that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three persons--your belief that God is one, and only one, person--is unitarianism. You are a fellow unitarian to NWL and TrevorL, who both are also, like you, unitarian. Of course, y'all fail to derive your unitarianism from the Bible, because the Bible does not teach unitarianism. The Bible opposes your unitarianism.

 

[Bright Raven]

• What (if anything) do you mean by "have the same Spirit"?
• Your denial that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three persons--your belief that God is one, and only one, person--is unitarianism. You are a fellow unitarian to NWL and TrevorL, who both are also, like you, unitarian. Of course, y'all fail to derive your unitarianism from the Bible, because the Bible does not teach unitarianism. The Bible opposes your unitarianism.

:first:

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 7djengo7,

Only if Wisdom is a person does Wisdom do any of those things, for only persons do any of those things. Wisdom, in Proverbs 8, does those things, therefore, Wisdom, in Proverbs 8, is a person.

Wisdom is a quality that has many manifestations, and the source of wisdom is God. God used HIS own wisdom in creation.

The following passages have a partial personification of God’s word:
Psalm 33:6–9 (KJV): 6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Isaiah 55:8–11 (KJV): 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Another aspect that may help to understand the use of “the WORD” in John 1:1 is the use of similar language in 1 John:
1 John 1:1–4 (KJV): 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; ) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

• What (if anything) do you mean by "have the same Spirit"?

• 
  The Father and Jesus have the same Spirit, so that means they are the same person.
  
  

  [*]Your denial that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three persons--your belief that God is one, and only one, person--is unitarianism. You are a fellow unitarian to NWL and TrevorL, who both are also, like you, unitarian. Of course, y'all fail to derive your unitarianism from the Bible, because the Bible does not teach unitarianism. The Bible opposes your unitarianism.

That doesn't even make sense to call me a Unitarian.

As for NWL, he doesn't believe Jesus is God, but I know Jesus is God.

I don't know what TrevorL believes.

God says He is One.

There is only one I Am, and it is the Father, and Jesus.

 

[7djengo7]

Wisdom is a quality that has many manifestations, and the source of wisdom is God.

You're an anti-Christ fool who has many banal ways of rewording your manifest hatred of Christ, and the source of your Christ-despising lies is your father, the devil.

"Wisdom is a quality"

If by "quality", you mean something that is not a person, then you are merely repeating the same anti-Bible falsehood you've already been pushing. Whatever is not a person does not speak, does not cry out, does not have a voice, does not teach. When you throw out the personality of the Wisdom spoken of in Proverbs 8, you, thereby, throw out the ability of that Wisdom to speak, cry out, have a voice, teach, etc. You're merely trying to render Proverbs 8 meaningless, because you despise it; however, since Proverbs 8 is God's truth, your efforts are futile. I can't even find your word, "source", in the Bible, much less your phrase, "the source of wisdom"; nor can I find your word, "quality", therein. So, it's up to you to try to explain what (if anything) you imagine you mean by the rubbish you've handed me.

You continue to despise and blaspheme YHWH by your denial that YHWH is Wisdom.

"the source of wisdom"

Are you saying that YHWH created the Wisdom spoken of in Proverbs 8?

​

God used HIS own wisdom in creation.

Are you saying that YHWH used the Wisdom spoken of in Proverbs 8 to create the Wisdom spoken of in Proverbs 8? If so, then what would you say YHWH used to create the Wisdom spoken of in Proverbs 8?

And, of course, bear in mind that you have absolutely no hope of refuge in the Bible, if you imagine that the Bible is going to help you out, here!

​

The following passages have a partial personification of God’s word:
Psalm 33:6–9 (KJV): 6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Isaiah 55:8–11 (KJV): 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

False. God's Word is personified nowhere, in these verses, nor elsewhere, you Christ-despising unitarian. Notice, too, that all you ever do is paste verses into your posts, without being the least bit able to use them to bolster your YHWH-blaspheming claims. You just assert that they bolster your stupidities, yet, consistently, you fail to explain--you fail even to try to explain--why you imagine the passages you've selected are of any help to you in your claims. Here, for instance, you did not even bother to try to explain why it is you say that Psalm 33:6-9 and Isaiah 55:8-11 "have a partial personification of God's word". Why this negligence? Simple: because, as you and I both know well, you have no explanation for saying it beyond your being motivated to say it by your Christ-despising assumption of the extra-Biblical doctrine of unitarianism.

​

Another aspect that may help to understand the use of “the WORD” in John 1:1 is the use of similar language in 1 John:
1 John 1:1–4 (KJV): 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; ) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

"Another aspect"

Another aspect of what?

"the use of similar language in 1 John"

Of course, as usual, you give not one whit of explanation of what (if anything) you are trying to say. Exactly which "language in 1 John" are you saying is "similar" to "the use of 'the WORD' in John 1:1"? In exactly what way(s) are you trying to say that the former is "similar" to the latter? Since you, being an anti-Christ trasher of the Bible, have not arrived at your YHWH-blaspheming outlook by believing the Bible, you, therefore, necessarily fail to explain yourself by merely quoting, without your own comment, passages of Scripture. Anybody can meaninglessly quote Scripture as you are doing.

In any case, no personification occurs in either John 1:1 or 1 John 1:1-4. Even some your fellow Christ-hating unitarians such as NWL oppose your claim of "Personification!" regarding John 1:1.

 

[God's Truth]

What (if anything) do you mean by "have the same Spirit"?

The Father and Jesus have the same Spirit, so that means they are the same person.

Your denial that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three persons--your belief that God is one, and only one, person--is unitarianism. You are a fellow unitarian to NWL and TrevorL, who both are also, like you, unitarian. Of course, y'all fail to derive your unitarianism from the Bible, because the Bible does not teach unitarianism. The Bible opposes your unitarianism.

That doesn't even make sense to call me a Unitarian.

Unitarians believe there are many ways to the Father.

​​​​​​​I don't believe like that.

As for NWL, he doesn't believe Jesus is God, but I know Jesus is God.

I don't know what TrevorL believes.

God says He is One.

There is only one I Am, and it is the Father, and Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

God is singular and not Gods.

God is One Person.

The Almighty God is One and comes to us in three ways, the Father, the Son, and His Holy Spirit that He sends forth.

God is not three different and separate Persons together called 'God'.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 7djengo7,

If by "quality", you mean something that is not a person, then you are merely repeating the same anti-Bible falsehood you've already been pushing.

Yes wisdom is a quality, and the purpose of the Book of Proverbs is to instruct us so that we may obtain wisdom:
Proverbs 1:1–6 (KJV): 1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel; 2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding; 3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity; 4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion. 5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

Our Lord Jesus Christ grew or increased in wisdom from a child:
Luke 2:52 (KJV): And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

God's Truth
Jesus was the Son BEFORE He ever came to earth. I understand that you have ONE verse of scripture that you use to FORCE all of the rest to match your "story".

Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
​

 

[God's Truth]

Right Divider

You said: Jesus was the Son BEFORE He ever came to earth. I understand that you have ONE verse of scripture that you use to FORCE all of the rest to match your "story".

Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.



God made Himself a body, the body of Jesus before he made anything.

It is still Him.

 

[Right Divider]

God made Himself a body, the body of Jesus before he made anything.

And you have ZERO verses of scripture for that.

The Son of God existed BEFORE ANYTHING was created. He is the Creator of ALL THINGS.

Col 1:15-17 KJV Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
​

 

[God's Truth]

Right Divider

That scripture proves what I said.

God is invisible and made Himself a body, a body that is the First and the Last, the glorified immortal body of the one who came and died for us and ascended back to heaven and given the first body he had from the beginning.

 

[God's Truth]

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.



That is the Father God speaking in the Old Testament, and it is Jesus, not yet known as Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

God the Father came as a son.

How else do you think God, a singular word for a singular person is three?

Malachi 2:10
Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?

Deuteronomy 32:39
'See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.


Note: This thread is having some technical difficulties, it won't allow editing and quoting.

 

[God's Truth]

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access to the Fatherby one Spirit.


There is ONLY ONE SPIRIT and only ONE BODY. That is proof that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the same One.

A person only has ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT.

 

[God's Truth]

God is an invisible Spirit.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Jesus is God made visible with a body.

Jesus is God the Father come to earth as man.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

God is a consuming fire.

Hebrews 12:29 for our "God is a consuming fire."

That fire in Jesus' eyes is the Spirit of God.Revelation 1:14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.

 

[Right Divider]

Right Divider

That scripture proves what I said.

God is invisible and made Himself a body, a body that is the First and the Last, the glorified immortal body of the one who came and died for us and ascended back to heaven and given the first body he had from the beginning.

NO. IT DOES NOT prove what you said.

Jesus is the CREATOR OF ALL THINGS. Jesus ALREADY EXISTED as the SON OF GOD before ANYTHING was CREATED.

 

[Right Divider]

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access to the Fatherby one Spirit.

There is ONLY ONE SPIRIT and only ONE BODY. That is proof that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the same One.

A person only has ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT.

Your VAIN philosophy is just that. The BIBLE speaks distinctly about the THREE PERSONS that are the ONE God.

A Father and HIS SON are two distinct PERSONS, whether you like it or not.