Jesus is God !

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You continue to call me a liar, ...
I only do that because you are lying.
...even when I'm just reminding readers of the teachings of Jesus.
See? You just lied again.
I'm not even quoting the texts, for you to read in your own Bibles. Who is a liar? A person who quotes Jesus, or another who is trying to contradict him?
You quote the scripture and then LIE about what it says.
Do you think Jesus is lying in Rev. 3.12?
No. Jesus never lies. Like when He said that HE WOULD RAISE HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD.

John 2:19-21 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. (2:20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? (2:21) But he spake of the temple of his body.
Acts 2:32 (AKJV/PCE)

(2:32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
What do you think he meant with those words? After reading those words of Jesus, do you think anyone in heavens is trinitarian?
:sleep:
 

EliG

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Well, I am not writing here for you, but for others readers of the topic. You can go and sleep if you want to. Anyway, you don't seem to take seriously what Jesus taught. Actually, it would be much better if you leave and sent someone to the forum who is better prepared than you to answer my questions without changing the subject. You don't seem to be very well educated, and so you just mock, insult, and try to provoke me into attacking you so that I get in trouble on the forum. Send your pastor here; maybe we can have a normal dialogue him and me.

Anyone who reads the heavenly visions in Revelation 4-6 realizes that Jesus is not considered God in heaven. That's just a wrong teaching that someone made up after John died; a non-Jew surely, because the first Christians were Jews and they knew very well that there is only one God in heaven and that Jesus is his Son.
 
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Well, I am not writing here for you, but for others readers of the topic.
Indeed, you only try to write to people that you think that you can fool and I'm not one of those.
You can go and sleep if you want to.
I believe the truth... you should try it.
Anyway, you don't seem to take seriously what Jesus taught.
Again, you lie. Is lying what Jesus said to do?
Anyone who reads the heavenly visions in Revelation 4-6 realizes that Jesus is not considered God in heaven. That's just a wrong teaching that someone made up after John died; a non-Jew surely, because the first Christians were Jews and they knew very well that there is only one God in heaven and that Jesus is his Son.
Answer this question, you dishonest heretic:

Was Jesus a liar when HE said that HE would RAISE HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD?

John 2:19-21 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. (2:20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? (2:21) But he spake of the temple of his body.
Acts 2:32 (AKJV/PCE)

(2:32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
 

EliG

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:sleep:

Waiting for somebody to take seriously what Jesus said in Rev. 3:12 ; for someone who is willing to answer my questions in the post #4220 ... preferably an educated person.
 

7djengo7

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I don't need the theologians who have given continuity to that erroneous doctrine that Jesus is equal to God to teach me anything.

John teaches that Jesus taught that He is equal to God. According to John, Jesus signified that He is equal with God by 1) having broken the sabbath, and by 2) saying that God is His Father:

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

That's what John says. That's not John reporting what the Jews said or thought. In that verse, John does not record what the Jews were saying or thinking; rather, he records 1) what the Jews were doing (viz., seeking the more to kill Jesus), and 2) what Jesus had done and said which triggered the Jews to seek the more to kill Jesus.

You show yourself to be a Bible-despising, Satan-serving heretic by telling us you reject what John the theologian teaches about Jesus Christ.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
You continue to call me a liar, even when I'm just reminding readers of the teachings of Jesus. I'm not even quoting the texts, for you to read in your own Bibles. Who is a liar? A person who quotes Jesus, or another who is trying to contradict him?

Do you think Jesus is lying in Rev. 3.12? What do you think he meant with those words? After reading those words of Jesus, do you think anyone in heavens is trinitarian?
Jesus wasn't saying he is not God.

Jesus did not condemn Thomas for calling him God
which would be blasphemy if Jesus were not God but Jesus is God so it is not blasphemy.

And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God. Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:28-29 [AKJV])
 

EliG

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You are talking about another Jesus, who is not the one I learn from in the Bible. Jesus, the one in the Scriptures, never said he was God or equal to God.

If Jesus never said such things, where did they come from?
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
You are talking about another Jesus, who is not the one I learn from in the Bible.
I'm not talking about a cult jesus like that of the jw's
Jesus, the one in the Scriptures, never said he was God or equal to God.

If Jesus never said such things, where did they come from?
Jesus did not condemn Thomas for calling him God
which would be blasphemy if Jesus were not God but Jesus is God so it is not blasphemy.


And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God. Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:28-29 [AKJV])
 

EliG

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I am not a Thomasian, I am a Christian. Jesus never told he was God or equal to God. But more than that, he taught exactly the opposite many times ...

Somehow some have come to the conclusion that the things that Jesus taught and that show that he is not God, are disposable, because he was only speaking as a simple human, and not as God; which is ironic and laughable, because he never really talks as if he claims the title of God. At the end, they are not believing a single thing Jesus taught about this matter.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
I am not a Thomasian, I am a Christian. Jesus never told he was God or equal to God. But more than that, he taught exactly the opposite many times ...

Somehow some have come to the conclusion that the things that Jesus taught and that show that he is not God, are disposable, because he was only speaking as a simple human, and not as God; which is ironic and laughable, because he never really talks as if he claims the title of God. At the end, they are not believing a single thing Jesus taught about this matter.
blah blah blah


And he that blasphemeth the name of Jehovah, he shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the sojourner, as the home-born, when he blasphemeth the name of Jehovah, shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:16 [ASV])


Jesus did not condemn Thomas for calling him God
which would be blasphemy if Jesus were not God but Jesus is God so it is not blasphemy.



And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God. Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:28-29 [AKJV])
 

EliG

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Jesus called his God "Lord of heaven and earth" here:

Luke 10:21 (...) "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. "

The one you say is God is calling another person "Lord of heaven and earth". He publicly did ... I love Jesus; he is a real Teacher to me. 👍

Do Trinitarians call Jehovah "Lord of heaven and earth" as Jesus did?
 
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Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
I am not a Thomasian, I am a Christian. Jesus never told he was God or equal to God. But more than that, he taught exactly the opposite many times ...

Somehow some have come to the conclusion that the things that Jesus taught and that show that he is not God, are disposable, because he was only speaking as a simple human, and not as God; which is ironic and laughable, because he never really talks as if he claims the title of God
That's because the accounts are chronicled specifically to demonstrate that even while the Lord Jesus never claimed to be God everybody else knew He was claiming to be God. It was obvious, I think it's very interesting that all the Gospel writers cannot find a single instance in history where Jesus flatly outright claimed equality with the Father.

Oh wait John 10
30* The Father and I are one.”r
. At the end, they are not believing a single thing Jesus taught about this matter.
Nevermind.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Jesus called his God "Lord of heaven and earth" here:
You hang an awful lot of weight on that peg. Specifically the "My God" peg, when Jesus utters this phrase. You think that this term alone supports your case, which is otherwise just plainly bonkers. Obviously a Man Who said, "30* The Father and I are one.”r " PLUS Who raised the dead, walked on water, and commanded storms and they obeyed, is entirely consistent with the ancient Christian tradition that He is God, which is an aspect of the Trinity (the teaching).

The teaching is Apostolic. All the Scripture which isn't ambiguous clearly supports the tradition.

You're hanging way too much on that peg.
Luke 10:21 (...) "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. "
Genesis-Revelation.
The one you say is God is calling another person "Lord of heaven and earth". He publicly did ... I
"I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life."
love Jesus; he is a real Teacher to me. 👍
He was a realer teacher to the Apostles. They were His pupils. They established what He instituted, or the other way round. A bunch of mid-level managers, with one mid-level manager in the place of honor such that if a theater is full of bishops assembled to watch a show, and then the pope shows up, they all figure out how to make His Holiness feel comfortable, even if the pope decides that it's only fair that he stand, since he was late to the show anyway. All the hierarchy says really is that, if you're going to do that for any mid-level manager (speaking to mid-level managers), then do it for the pope. He's the mid-level manager who is in a slight way and in a particular way, first among them all, and otherwise they are all equally mid-level managers.

Jesus didn't just leave a Bible for us, He left a Bible and He left an organization of mid-level managers, with one mid-level manager "to rule them all"----jk, no: one mid-level manager is first among them, when it makes any sense to have one going first, or one you defer to by default, then and only then, he is first. But otherwise he's just another mid-level manager, just like all the rest of the bishops, even the auxiliaries.
Do Trinitarians call Jehovah "Lord of heaven and earth" as Jesus did?
lol Jehovah.

You're another JW. Knew it. You're like cockroaches, an insect infestation.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The moment Jesus says that someone else is his God (Rev. 3:12), he is already saying that he is not. More than that, he tells his brothers that his God is the same God as theirs (John 20:17). He said that because they were Jews like him, and worshiped the same God among all (John 8:54,55; 4:22). Jesus tells his Father in a prayer in front of his apostles that He is "the only true God" (John 17:3). Surely his followers were very clear about it (Rev. 1:5,6)... unlike what was taught several centuries later by the second generation that followed that one. Those others were no longer clear about who God really was, and one of the reasons was that the vast majority of them at that time were no longer Jews.

I don't need the theologians who have given continuity to that erroneous doctrine that Jesus is equal to God to teach me anything. Thank God those erroneous teachings that were invented later were not recorded as inspired, because they never were. The truth is in the Scriptures, that were finished with John, the last apostle.

Have you ever wondered why the Catholic Church never dared to include as inspired writing any post-John writing (there were a lot of them), which they could well have used to defend the new theological speculations they defended about the fourth century?
So apparently you dont have a specific verse that says that, I didnt think so !
 

EliG

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Is the exchange that occurs between Thomas and the risen Jesus about some Deity of Jesus, or about the fact that Jesus has actually been brought back to life?
 

EliG

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Is the exchange that occurs between Thomas and the risen Jesus about some Deity of Jesus, or about the fact that Jesus has actually been brought back to life?
Thomas's expression is only an expression of astonishment, not a declaration of a Christian dogma. If you had been there, you would know perfectly well that Thomas did not consider Jesus to be his God, although he certainly understood that after he was resurrected he was a divine being. Jesus had just sent the message to his brothers: "I ascend to my God and your God"... Didn't Thomas know?
 
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