Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

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MennoSota

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Dartman said:
Yes, he did. And Jehovah is the HIS and HIM in John 12:41, not Jesus. Jesus is "the arm of Jehovah". Jesus is Jehovah's servant;

Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.
8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.

Acts 4:24-30 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 who by the holy spirit, (by) the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:
27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass.
29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness,
30 while Thy stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus.
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You sound like a Muslim...
 
C

clefty

New member
chair said:
Maybe the bold italics will help you think a little more clearly about this. The laws were not given to all mankind.
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don’t need bold letters to see the chutz pah of jewish false witness and exaggerated claims...history documents that...

So despite my earlier post about the mixed multitude which set off into the desert...you insist...typical

As if the jews were the only ones to be saved...or the only ones to sin...the reason for the Law to begin with...

See Deuteronomy 4:
See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the Lord my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.” 7 What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?​
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just jews yes?

Usually it’s much harder to get a jew to admit such exclusivity privilege elitism...or monopoly...LOL

Must be still part of that Jeremiah 11:9 thingy...

How about the ten commandments?
And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Who is "you" here?

or here:
Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.​

Who id God talking to?
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Your inner Freud slipping...revealing...LOL


Yes jews...just jews...marriage is just for jews too...only jews to be saved...six days of creation for a world only for jews...the goyim are only for to serve them...

Some of us already know yours think this...
 
Apple7

Apple7

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genuineoriginal said:
The brothers of Joseph worshiped him as lord.

Genesis 42:6-10 WYC
6 And Joseph was the prince of Egypt, and at his will wheats were sold to [the] peoples. And when his brethren had worshipped him, (And Joseph was the prince, or the ruler, of Egypt, and at his will corn, or grain, was sold to people from all the lands. And so when his brothers had bowed before him,)
7 and he had known them, he spake harder to them, as to aliens, and asked them, From whence came ye? Which answered, From the land of Canaan, that we buy necessaries to our lifelode. (and he knew them, he spoke harshly to them, as to strangers, and asked them, Where did you come from? And they answered, From the land of Canaan, so that we can buy necessities to live.)
8 And nevertheless he knew his brethren, and he was not known of them, (And though he knew his brothers, he was not known by them,)
9 and he bethought on the dreams which he saw sometime. And he said to them, Ye be spyers, ye came to see the feebler things of the land (And he said to them, Ye be spies, and ye came here to spy out our weaknesses).
10 Which said, Lord, it is not so, but thy servants came to buy meats; (And they said, My lord, it is not so, but thy servants have come to buy food; )​

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So...you failed to locate worship applied to Abraham.

No surprise.

Then you pluck this Joseph example out of context, and submit it.

But, you failed yet again to realize that Gen 37 already informs the reader of Joseph's dream of the sheaves which declares that his brothers will bow to him, NOT worship him!

Get a grip, and a brain...
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned

Jesus is God, the Second Person of the Trinity.

Quoted again for Truth's sake:


CatholicCrusader said:
Jesus specifically said he was God, so you are wrong. PERIOD!!

In John 8:58 Jesus says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am", invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God: "I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself, so they "took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).

In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, "My Lord and my God!" (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou, literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me!")

Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12). This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: "When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’" (Rev. 1:17). "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’" (Rev. 2:8). "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end" (Rev. 22:12–13).

This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title "the Alpha and the Omega," which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: "‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8).

Jesus is God, the Second Person of the Trinity. If you do not know that then you do not know Jesus ORE God.
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C

clefty

New member
Dartman said:
You are incorrect. Those laws "written and engraven in stones" were DONE AWAY.

The rest of your post is equally erroneous,.
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Those laws were upheld amplified and written on circumcised hearts of His obedient people...

As you admitted...

Some elements...lol

ALL 10 the ceremonial shadows are and the dietary laws...

All present in the NT sect known as the Way...

Paul was clear none of that changed...and at ALL his trials...no proof was given that he practiced or taught they were changed...
 
C

clefty

New member
genuineoriginal said:
You have never met an Orthodox Christian or a Catholic Christian?
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LOL...

Now now now...they claim they merely venerate the image and through it worship its prototype...just like the pagans claim...pagans don’t worship the tree or rock but the force it represents...

Would you believe that catholics give themselves permission to make the images because the word became flesh?

So because the Son became incarnate...and could be seen...this abrogated His Father’s second ammendment right NOT to have images made...LOL

You would think that if images were allowed Yahushua could have poised for some sculptures or something...LOL

Maybe left something to hold kiss and pray at...

Oh well...

Powerful jewish false testimony this OT was changed into new laws of the NT...
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
clefty said:
...they claim they merely venerate the image and through it worship its prototype...just like the pagans claim...pagans don’t worship the tree or rock but the force it represents......
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^ clefty's post is sheer ignorance. I know from personal experiences regarding this issue that you are full of crap.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

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clefty

New member
CatholicCrusader said:
^ clefty's post is sheer ignorance.


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Least I didnt come up with this:

2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.71

2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm
 
D

Dartman

Active member
MennoSota said:
You deny Jesus is God. Muslims speak like you.
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There is that one similarity, however there are many differences.
I'm pretty suspicious you agree with their claims that there is only one God, On that we ALL claim to agree. We would all disagree about WHO is that one God, but the Monotheism would be a belief all 3 would claim.

And my guess is that you agree with them that the reward of the righteous is in heaven?

Wow, now YOU'RE sounding like a Muslim.
 
M

MennoSota

New member
Dartman said:
There is that one similarity, however there are many differences.
I'm pretty suspicious you agree with their claims that there is only one God, On that we ALL claim to agree. We would all disagree about WHO is that one God, but the Monotheism would be a belief all 3 would claim.

And my guess is that you agree with them that the reward of the righteous is in heaven?

Wow, now YOU'RE sounding like a Muslim.
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90% of the world traces to one God. (Read Don Richardson's book "Eternity in Their Hearts.") Christians differ from you. We believe in one being in three persons as Scripture expresses.
You, like Muslims, twist the scriptures to deny God.
 
7djengo7

7djengo7

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TrevorL said:
God the Father’s glory is underived. Jesus’ glory has been derived from God, and now he fully reveals this glory.
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TrevorL said:
Perhaps you may look at a good dictionary to understand the full range of the word glory.
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To which "good dictionary" should I look to find out what (if anything) YOU meant by "glory" in each of the three instances of the word in your quote, above? You know, it's not NECESSARY that YOU meant something by the word "glory", just because you wrote the word in your post. There's no NECESSITY that you were not just meaninglessly stringing words together. Lots of people do that, lots of the time. Especially Christ-hating enemies of truth and logic such as yourself (who then, as robot-parrots, turn around and accuse their inquisitive, rationally-thinking critics of being "obsessed with semantics" or some such nonsense). You may imagine, and claim, that you meant something by the word "glory" when you wrote it, but notice that, by directing me (incapable, as I am, of reading your mind) to go look in some dictionary that YOU did not write, you are telling me that YOU are incapable of telling me what (if anything) YOU meant by the word. Common ploy, the "go look it up" shtick. I always enjoy when enemies of truth have to resort to it, like you have to, because it is a transparent admission that you haven't a clue about what you're saying.
 
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