Theology Club: Israel During the Millennium

[Dialogos]

Hi , and I was in a hurry and here is what I meant .

I mis-spelled Branches , that is found in John 15:5 !!

I see, that is now clear, mistaken but clear.

Every Jew is a branch in Jesus John 15 analogy. Some are fruitful others aren't.

In verse 1 Jesus identifies himself as the "true vine." This is a revelation about a well known metaphor that was used in the OT to describe Israel.
Psalm 80:, Isaiah 4:2, Isaiah 5:1-7, Isaiah 27:2-6, Jer 2:21 Hosea 10:1 are a few examples.
Jesus identifies himself as the "true vine." He is root of David (Rev 22:16). So there are believing descendants of Israel (fruitful branches) and unbelieving descendants of Israel (unfruitful branches). The fruitful branches are the ones who remain in Him and He in them, the unfruitful branches (unbelieving branches) are cut off.
So to your questions.

#1 , Is the Body of Christ Branches ??

The Body of Christ metaphor had not yet been developed scripturally so you are asking a bit of an anachronistic question. Nevertheless, yes, the Body of Christ abides in the “true vine”.

#2 , Or are we in the Body of Christ , with Christ as the Head ??

false Dilemma, we are both. You do get that both are analogies right?
You reply to NANG with the following:

Hi , but it is not TRUE !!

#1 , VINE in John 15:5 is the Greek word AMPELOS !!

#2 , The Greek word for BRANCHES is KLEMA , and are WRONG AGAIN !!

We are in SOMA CHRISTOS and Vine and Branches !!

dan p

#1 True story, Vine in Greek is αμπελος, so what? What do you think this proves?
#2 The Greek word for a branch is κλημα, again, so what?
I don’t know what you think it proves but it certainly doesn’t prove that the branches that remain in the vine of Christ are somehow excluded from the body of Christ.

Scripture uses metaphors to describe our relationship to Christ all the time. Just because Paul talks about the church being body of Christ in Ephesians 1 and then changes metaphors to talk about the church being the bride of Christ in Ephesians 5 does not give me license to create some new distinction between the body of Christ and the bride of Christ with their own unique gospels does it?
The simplest explanation is usually the right one Dan.
The branches in the true vine of Christ are the bride of Christ, are the body of Christ, are the redeemed of Christ, are the friends of Christ, servants of Christ and brothers of Christ. Scripture uses all of those to describe believers, no need to get scissor happy and start cutting them all apart giving them their own unique gospels.

 

[DAN P]

Hi , and we can also say that Eph 2:8 saved by Grace , Is also a Metaphor ??

How Quaint is that ??

So , WHAT ??

It shows that you are WRONG , thats what !!

I see that CONTEXT is not High as a PRIORITY in your writings ??

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Hi , and you believe in being saved , by a Covenant ??

You said that you believe in Covenant Theology ?

Is Covenant theology for the Body of Christ ?

Where are the verses for that and how you were saved ?

Are you saved by a COVENANT or by Grace ??

dan p

 

[Dialogos]

Hi , and we can also say that Eph 2:8 saved by Grace , Is also a Metaphor ??

Dan,

You seem like an intelligent enough guy. I think you are capable of realizing that some things in scripture are metaphors and some are not.

For example. Jesus is not a literal door, a literal rock a literal loaf of bread or a literal vine. These are are metaphors. Please tell me that you get this because I have explaining it to a 3rd grade Sunday school class and they got it.

Being saved by grace is not a metaphor. Metaphors often use figurative speech to illustrate a point and or points. There is nothing figurative about salvation or grace.

 

[Dialogos]

Are you saved by a COVENANT or by Grace ??

How about you Dan, are you saved by Jesus or by grace?
Or could it be both?

We are saved by Grace, through faith because of a New Covenant where our sins and lawless acts God remembers no more....

 

[DAN P]

How about you Dan, are you saved by Jesus or by grace?
Or could it be both?

We are saved by Grace, through faith because of a New Covenant where our sins and lawless acts God remembers no more....

Hi , and since you believe that we are saved by faith of a New Covenant , just what , is in the New Covenant that saves us ??

Jesus is also called Christ , is that a Metaphor , which can be a Figure of speech !!

I hope that Nang is not putting word in your mouth , since you seem to be speaking for her !!

dan p

 

[Dialogos]

Hi , and since you believe that we are saved by faith of a New Covenant , just what , is in the New Covenant that saves us ??

I didn't say that we are saved by faith of a new covenant (whatever that means) or even faith in a covenant. Faith in the covenant doesn't save anyone, Grace through faith because of a New Covenant is what saves us. The New covenant was inaugurated by Christ's blood, it is a covenant of the forgiveness of sins, and a Covenant where all covenant members have new hearts (rather than hearts of stone) it was promised in the Old Covenant, but includes gentiles as 1 Cor 11 and 2 Cor 3 illustrate.
I’ve a hunch you weren’t asking to be informed, my guess is you were asking to bait me. Which is sometimes annoyingly cleaver and other times just annoying. I’d much rather you just be out with whatever point you meant to make.
I know that you mid acts dispensationalists don't think gentiles participate in the New Covenant but you are proved wrong by the fact that Paul instructs the Corinthians (gentiles) about the proper celebration of the Lord's Supper - which memorialized the inauguration of the New Covenant (1 Corinthians 11:23-25) - and in his second letter to the Corinthians he describes himself as a minister of a new covenant (2 Cor 3:6).

Jesus is also called Christ , is that a Metaphor , which can be a Figure of speech !!

Ummm no. Please tell me you knew the answer to that one before you asked it. I have formed an opinion of you as reasonably intelligent, don’t ruin it.
Christ is not a figure of speech, it is a description, role, title, etc…
Jesus saying He is a Vine is a metaphor and most anyone can see that.
Do you think Jesus is literally plant life Dan?
If not then you can get that Jesus was speaking metaphorically in John 15.
Do you think that Jesus is ontologically a disembodied head? Do you think that every member of the body of Christ is literally a biological appendage or organ of a biological entity with Jesus being the literal cranium? Which organ are you in the body of Christ? The spleen maybe, maybe you are the spleen of the body of Christ?
No?

Perhaps you can see that the body of Christ is not a literal human body but is again, a metaphor.

I hope that Nang is not putting word in your mouth , since you seem to be speaking for her !!

Nope, I speak for me, Nang speaks for herself.
I just commented on something you wrote to her. Happens all the time on online forums, I bet you've done it a time or two.

 

[Nang]

Hi , and you believe in being saved , by a Covenant ??

You said that you believe in Covenant Theology ?;

Yes.

Is Covenant theology for the Body of Christ ?

Yes.

Where are the verses for that

Any and all verses in the Bible that reveal the promises of God.

Covenant = Promise

and how you were saved ?

By being gifted with faith from God to believe in the promises of God.
Ephesians 2:8-9

Are you saved by a COVENANT or by Grace ??

dan p

The grace of God is promised to those chosen for redemption in and through Christ performing ALL covenant promises. Ephesians 1:3-12

Nang

 

[DAN P]

Yes.



Yes.



Any and all verses in the Bible that reveal the promises of God.

Covenant = Promise




By being gifted with faith from God to believe in the promises of God.
Ephesians 2:8-9



The grace of God is promised to those chosen for redemption in and through Christ performing ALL covenant promises. Ephesians 1:3-12

Nang

Hi , Nang , and just where is the Greek word DIATHEKE /COVENANT in Eph 1:3-12 ??

Point it out so I can study that verse !!

So , just how were you saved under a Covenant ?

There is the Davidic , Abrahamic, Palestinnian and the New Covenant that have yet to be Implemented !!

Which one SAVED YOU ??

DAN P

 

[jamie]

Traditional Dispensationalism promotes the idea that Israel will be on the Earth in temporal bodies, while the Church will be on the Earth simultaneously but with glorified, eternal bodies. Speaking for myself that has always been something that I've been reluctant to accept.

Paul taught that there are two types of bodies, natural and spiritual. Natural bodies are subject to degeneration due to old age, infirmities, accidents, etc. whereas spiritual bodies are incorruptible.

The first general resurrection will convert natural bodies to incorruptible bodies. Those who are not part of that resurrection will not be changed, they will remain in a mortal, natural body.