Israel and the Church

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Trump Gurl

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Israel and the Church
(Catholic Answers website gives permission to post articles entirely)

One of the disputes in Protestant circles is over the relationship between Israel and the Church and whether God still has a special purpose for the ethnic people of Israel in his plan of the ages. Two of the chief disputants are the Protestant schools of thought known as “dispensationalism” and “covenant theology.” The former is a relative newcomer on the Protestant scene and was started in the 1830s by an Englishman named John Nelson Darby. A distinctive characteristic of dispensationalism is its insistence that God’s plan of the ages focuses chiefly around the ethnic people of Israel.

With the close of the Church age, many dispensationalists have said they expect God to turn away from dealing with the Gentiles and turn again to dealing primarily with the Jews.This affects dispensationalism’s reading of the book of Revelation as well as much of the rest of biblical prophecy. Dispensationalists see Revelation as a blueprint of future events, chiefly concerning the Jewish people, leading up to a future, earthly reign of Christ known as the Millennium.

During the Millennium, they believe, Israel will be restored as a nation, will return to offering animal sacrifices (in commemoration of Christ’s death on the cross), and will be the most favored nation on earth, with Jesus physically ruling in its capitol. In dispensational thought, the Jews may also have a special status in the eternal order that follows the Millennium.

Covenant theology is much more in line with what traditional Protestant views have been. It tends to be amillennial, viewing the Millennium as the present reign of Christ in heaven and, through the Church, on earth. This is the historic Protestant view, in contrast to dispensationalism’s pre-millennial (future earthly reign of Christ) stance.

Covenant theology thus does not take Revelation as a checklist of future events but as a prophecy of events occurring at the beginning of or all through Church history. Consequently it does not see Revelation as a record of God’s future dealings with the Jewish people. When dealing with apparently unfulfilled prophecies that speak expressly of Israel—such as those in many of the Old Testament prophets—covenant theologians tend to apply them to the Church, arguing that the Church is the spiritual Israel. This “transfer” of prophecies from ethnic Israel to the Church does not go over well with dispensationalists.
If we may speak of the two systems in their unqualified forms, dispensationalism asserts that God still has future plans for the Jewish people and deduces that the Church is not spiritual Israel; covenant theology asserts that the Church is spiritual Israel and deduces that God has no future plans for the Jews different than his plans for any other people.

Both systems cite Scripture for the major premises of their arguments, and the verses they cite seem successful in showing these points. The problem is not with the Scripture passages cited by the two groups but with the conclusions they draw from them. It is the constraints of the two systems that keep their adherents from recognizing that the inferences they make do not follow.

The Catholic Church is able to acknowledge the truth that is found in both positions. Along with the dispensationalists the Church acknowledges that God does still have plans for the Jews as a unique people (Catechism of the Catholic Church 674). Paul clearly indicates this in his writings, especially in Romans 9–11, where he indicates God continues to fulfill his promises about the Jewish people by preserving a remnant of Jewish believers in Christ (11:1–5). This indicates a special place for Israel, for no other people has a promise that there will always be a believing remnant. God also has future plans for the Jewish people: One day the Jewish people as a nation will return to Christ, and this will be one of the signs of the Second Coming and the resurrection of the dead (11:12, 15).

On the other hand, along with covenant theologians, Catholics acknowledge that the Church is spiritual Israel or, in Catholic parlance, the “new Israel” (cf. CCC 877). This too is indicated in Paul’s writings: In Romans 9:6 he says that “not all who are of Israel are Israel.” This indicates the existence of two Israels. One—”all who are of Israel”—indicates the ethnic people, not all of whom believe in Jesus. The other Israel, the context reveals, does not include those who have rejected the Messiah. This new Israel, founded by Messiah, exists in spiritual continuity with the Old Testament saints and so counts as a “spiritual Israel.” It includes Gentiles who believe in the Messiah and so through baptism are spiritually circumcised (Col. 2:11–12) and are reckoned as spiritual Jews (Rom. 2:26–29).
In his letter to the Ephesians Paul is even more explicit about the Gentiles’ spiritual inclusion when he states that “you Gentiles in the flesh . . . were [once] separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel . . . But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near . . . So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints” (2:11–13, 19).

Thus the Catholic Church, not being constrained by the new theological systems of dispensationalism and covenant theology, is able to avoid the extremes of both while it acknowledges the truths both contain—as it has since before either was invented.
 

Right Divider

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Israel and the Church
Two of the chief disputants are the Protestant schools of thought known as “dispensationalism” and “covenant theology.” The former is a relative newcomer on the Protestant scene and was started in the 1830s by an Englishman named John Nelson Darby. A distinctive characteristic of dispensationalism is its insistence that God’s plan of the ages focuses chiefly around the ethnic people of Israel.
The apostle Paul was a dispensationalist long before Darby. Eph 3:1-7, Col 1:25
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
The apostle Paul was a dispensationalist long before Darby. Eph 3:1-7, Col 1:25

LOL! Dispensationalism was INVENTED by the heretic Darby. It is a manmade heresy, unheard of in the Church until the 1800s. As usual, you are wrong. But your belief in Dispensationalism explains why so much of what you post is anti-Christian and anti-Biblical.

Dispensationalism is a false theology whicj teaches that God deals with people differently at different periods of history, wretched heresy that deprives Christians of hope and condemns millions to hell. It is the root of much popular fake teachings concerning the end times too.

It is wrong! It is unbiblical! It should be renounced by all true believers.
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Jimmy Akin - Judaism, the True Israel, and the End Times


Did the Church replace Judaism as the "True Israel?" Jimmy Akin gives a brief history of "Dispensationalism" and what Catholics believe about Judaism and the end times.
 

Right Divider

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LOL! Dispensationalism was INVENTED by the heretic Darby. It is a manmade heresy, unheard of in the Church until the 1800s. As usual, you are wrong. But your belief in Dispensationalism explains why so much of what you post is anti-Christian and anti-Biblical.
LOL... here you reject Paul's epistles again. Paul was given a DISPENSATION of the gospel and it was NOT the gospel of the kingdom.
Dispensationalism is a false theology whicj teaches that God deals with people differently at different periods of history, wretched heresy that deprives Christians of hope and condemns millions to hell. It is the root of much popular fake teachings concerning the end times too.
This is what the Bible teaches. If you don't like that... it's your problem.
1Co 12:5 KJV And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
It is wrong! It is unbiblical! It should be renounced by all true believers.
True believers renounce you and your RCC garbage.
 

JudgeRightly

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LOL! Dispensationalism was INVENTED by the heretic Darby.

Because you say so?

It is a manmade heresy,

Because you say so?

unheard of in the Church until the 1800s.

Actually...

The term "dispensation" is a term that comes from the greek word for house rules, and can be found in four verses in the Bible. (1 Corinthians 9:17; Ephesians 1:10, 3:2; Colossians 1:25). It also happens to be the term we get the english word "economy" from.

The greek word is "oikonomia."

"Oikos" means "house."
"Nomos" means "rules."

Thus, "oikonomia" means "house rules."

The "house rules" of the gospel of the grace of God are different than the "house rules" of the House of Israel. Mixing the two is why the CC and many other denominations are so different from each other, to the extent that they mix the two.

As usual, you are wrong.

Because you say so?

But your belief in Dispensationalism explains why so much of what you post is anti-Christian and anti-Biblical.

Sorry, but just because it goes against your personally held beliefs doesn't make it anti-Christian OR anti-Biblical.

Dispensationalism is a false theology

Because you say so?

which teaches that God deals with people differently at different periods of history,

Does He not?

If you had read the Bible, or at the very least, gotten an overview of what it teaches, including in each book, you would know that God does, in fact, deal with people differently at different periods of history.

He dealt with Israel differently than he dealt with Egypt, and Canaan differently than Rome.

He deals with Israel differently than he does the BoC.

Paul made the latter very clear.

wretched heresy

Because you say so?

that deprives Christians of hope and condemns millions to hell.

Because you say so? Or because your teachers say so? Or because the CC says so?

Because the Bible doesn't say that.

It is the root of much popular fake teachings concerning the end times too.

No, it's not.

It is wrong! It is unbiblical! It should be renounced by all true believers.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Stamping your foot and yelling it out won't change that.
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
From my other thread, "Dispensationalism, an Orthodox Christian View"

QUOTE:

Dispensationalism​


A heresy practiced by many Protestant groups, Dispensationalism is a form of premillennialism which narrates Biblical history as a number of successive "economies" or "administrations," called "dispensations." Each of these dispensations emphasizes the discontinuity of the covenants of God made with His various peoples.

History​

Dispensationalism was born from the Protestant environs of England and Ireland, developed by the Plymouth Brethren movement under the teachings of John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Darby built on a number of themes that were common with radical Calvinists and Evangelicals in the early 19th century; however, he elaborated a more complex system for interpreting the Bible than his predecessors.

Dispensationalism was brought to the Americas by John Inglis, where it continued to flourish through the teachings of James H. Brookes, Dwight L. Moody (founder of the Moody Bible Institute), and Cyrus Scofield (author of the Scofield Study Bible).

Famous American advocates of Dispensationalism include Charles Ryrie, Hal Lindsey, John Hagee, and authors of the Left Behind series, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.

Teachings​

Unlike the belief of the Church which teaches that itself, as Christ’s spouse, is the New Jerusalem and God’s chosen people through its union with Jesus Christ, Dispensationalists believe that the Christian Church is an interruption in God’s divine contract with the Jewish people. They believe that the Gospel began to be preached to the Gentiles, however, God’s continued care for the Jewish people will be revealed after the end of the “Church’s Dispensation,” when the Jews shall be restored to their land, and they shall accept Christ as the Messiah. Hence, Dispensationalists believe that there is one mode of salvation for Gentiles, and another for Jews. This goes against the soteriology taught by the Church, which says that Christ came to save all regardless of ethnic background.

Because of this, many Dispensationalists are advocates of Zionism, the Jewish nationalist movement.

Some Christian Dispensationalists have taken to not only supporting the state of Israel, but also observing traditional Jewish holidays, keeping Kosher standards, and practicing Jewish religious rituals. It should be noted that this practice has been condemned by the Holy Apostles (especially in Paul's Epistle to the Galatians) and Church Fathers throughout the centuries, including Ignatius of Antioch and John Chrysostom, both of whom were ardent opponents of Judaizing.

Dispensationalists also advocate other questionable teachings, especially in their interpretation of eschatology. For example, many believe in the Rapture, an event occurring before the Second Coming of Christ where all Christians of true belief are assumed into Heaven, and the Time of Tribulation, a period ruled by a draconian, demonic figure called the Antichrist, where those who were not taken up must find correct belief before the Final Judgment.

See also​

Supersessionism

 

JudgeRightly

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Because it IS so, despite your erroneous perversions of the scriptures.

But thanks for bumping up my thread.

Yet you won't address the meat of my post.

Why is that?

Are you not sure how to respond?

Do you think it a waste of time to engage in discussion of what the Bible teaches?

Or perhaps you're just incapable?

Whatever the reason, what I said stands, so far, unrebutted by you or anyone, as of me typing this post.
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Yet you won't address the meat of my post.

Your post has not meat. It has no nothing.

I have presented the position of the two Ancient Churches, the Orthodox and the Latin (Catholic). You ae presenting the belief of some gomer dope named Darby who invented his nonsense in the 1800's.

I will tell you what I told you in the other thread:

I don't need to prove my claims any more than I need to prove that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
What I believe is what all Christianity believes. It is YOU who adhere to manmade doctrines invented in the 1800's and never heard of in the Apostolic Church. It is YOU who needs to prove YOUR position, which of course you cannot do because your position is heresy.
So, thanks again for bumping my thread with another one of your hollow worthless posts.
 

JudgeRightly

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Your post has not meat. It has no nothing.

Ignoring it won't make it go away, TG.

Here it is again:

In response to your claim that dispensationalism wasn't invented until the 1800s:

Actually...

The term "dispensation" is a term that comes from the greek word for house rules, and can be found in four verses in the Bible. (1 Corinthians 9:17; Ephesians 1:10, 3:2; Colossians 1:25). It also happens to be the term we get the english word "economy" from.

The greek word is "oikonomia."

"Oikos" means "house."
"Nomos" means "rules."

Thus, "oikonomia" means "house rules."

The "house rules" of the gospel of the grace of God are different than the "house rules" of the House of Israel. Mixing the two is why the CC and many other denominations are so different from each other, to the extent that they mix the two.

And in response to your assertion that God doesn't deal with different people in different ways at different times:

Does He not?

If you had read the Bible, or at the very least, gotten an overview of what it teaches, including in each book, you would know that God does, in fact, deal with people differently at different periods of history.

He dealt with Israel differently than he dealt with Egypt, and Canaan differently than Rome.

He deals with Israel differently than he does the BoC.

Paul made the latter very clear.

So there you go. Take a bite of the meat. Or are you so lactose intolerant that you can't even digest the milk?

I have presented the position of the two Ancient Churches, the Orthodox and the Latin (Catholic).

That's nice.

I'd rather you present what the Bible says. Not what some denomination says about the Bible.

You ae presenting the belief of some gomer dope named Darby who invented his nonsense in the 1800's.

The only one here who constantly brings up some scholar who's dead and buried is you, TG.

All I've done is referred to the Bible.

Who's the one who's anti-Biblical again?

I will tell you what I told you in the other thread:

Argumentum ad nauseum.

Repeating your argument won't make me or anyone accept it.

Prove your position, rather than quoting someone else who took the time to write their beliefs down and attempt to defend them.
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Jimmy Akin - Judaism, the True Israel, and the End Times


Did the Church replace Judaism as the "True Israel?" Jimmy Akin gives a brief history of "Dispensationalism" and what Catholics believe about Judaism and the end times.
 

JudgeRightly

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They should put that on your tombstone.

So instead of addressing the meat of my post, yet again, you have ignored what I said and resorted to childishness.

Last chance, TG.

Address the following:

In response to your claim that dispensationalism wasn't invented until the 1800s:

JudgeRightly said:
Actually...

The term "dispensation" is a term that comes from the greek word for house rules, and can be found in four verses in the Bible. (1 Corinthians 9:17; Ephesians 1:10, 3:2; Colossians 1:25). It also happens to be the term we get the english word "economy" from.

The greek word is "oikonomia."

"Oikos" means "house."
"Nomos" means "rules."

Thus, "oikonomia" means "house rules."

The "house rules" of the gospel of the grace of God are different than the "house rules" of the House of Israel. Mixing the two is why the CC and many other denominations are so different from each other, to the extent that they mix the two.

And in response to your assertion that God doesn't deal with different people in different ways at different times:

JudgeRightly said:
Does He not?

If you had read the Bible, or at the very least, gotten an overview of what it teaches, including in each book, you would know that God does, in fact, deal with people differently at different periods of history.

He dealt with Israel differently than he dealt with Egypt, and Canaan differently than Rome.

He deals with Israel differently than he does the BoC.

Paul made the latter very clear.
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
So instead of addressing the meat of my post, yet again, you have ignored what I said . . . . .

I ignore pretty much everything you say in case you have not figured that out yet. At least you are finally catching on.

You are 100% rock-solid stuck in your fringe extremist Biblical ideas and I have neither the desire nor the time to try and wedge you lose.
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Ladies and Gentlemen, I have presented the Eastern Orthodox view in this forum, I have presented the Catholic view, and I will post some protestant articles about the topic. That is all of Christianity. All of Christianity hold a few things in common:

The inerrancy of the Bible
The literal nature of the Biblical accounts regarding Christ's miracles
The virgin birth of Christ
The bodily resurrection and physical return of Christ
The substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross
The Trinity
The 27 books of the New Testament

AND

The rejection of Dispensationalism.

I have no need to say any more.
 
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