No, "waters below" are subterranean. "Waters above" would be seas. You're still trying to fit some vapor canopy idea(s) into this. That, or you're trying to interpret the "firmament called Heaven" as the "firmament of the heavens."
The firmament called Heaven is terra firma.
The firmament of the heavens is space.
I know you and Stripe are trying to make this case, but you're not convincing me. And scripture doesn't support it. And Bob Enyart is wrong to promote it. "Heaven" is always used for something that is above the earth. even in the very first book of the bible, the very first verse, Gen 1:1, "heaven" is not "earth"--they are two separate things.
And I'm not making the case for a vapor canopy. But I'm willing to say the waters are above the firmament of heaven, and if "heaven" means the stuff up above our heads, which is pretty consistent with all the definitions I can think of, I'm certainly willing to consider ideas that are consistent with all of English-speaking peoples' idea of what "heaven" and "the heavens" means.
But I have a hard time with someone that says "heaven" means "earth".
He named the firmament in the midst of the waters (the waters below, aka "the Deep" (Genesis 1:2) (which David in Psalms refers to as being in storehouses), and the waters above, aka "the Seas") Heaven.
David says something interesting in Psalm 136.
To Him who laid out
the earth above the waters, For His mercy endures forever; - Psalm 136:6
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm136:6&version=NKJV
Ah, "the deep". David has a few things to say about the deep:
[Psa 107:23 KJV] They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters;
[Psa 107:24 KJV] These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep.
[Psa 107:25 KJV] For he commandeth, and raiseth the stormy wind, which lifteth up the waves thereof.
[Psa 107:26 KJV] They mount up to the heaven, they go down again to the depths: their soul is melted because of trouble.
Notice how David says sailors can see the works of the Lord, his wonders in the deep? That they sail their ships on the deep? That the deep has waves? the waves actually mount up to heaven? And remember that this can't be the "heaven" that is the crust of the earth, because that no longer exists in your model. Are you saying the waters under the crust mount up to the sky, and that sailors can see into the waters under the crust? Amazing!
Job, too:
[Job 38:30 KJV] The waters are hid as [with] a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
[Job 41:31 KJV] [Leviathan] maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
[Job 41:32 KJV] He maketh a path to shine after him; [one] would think the deep [to be] hoary.
Are you really ready to say that the waters under the earth are frozen, that "the deep" and "the sea" refer to the same thing--waters under the crust--which are "hoary"-looking after the leviathan moves through it? Really...under the crust of the earth?
"Earth above the waters." :think:
I'd rather think about earth below the waters. The earth wouldn't stay dry very long. That was why the flood was so devastating: [Gen 7:20 KJV] Fifteen cubits
upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. Even in your model, the Lord had to bring the land up, so that it wold not be under water. So why is "earth above the waters" so helpful to your case?
Because "Heaven" in Genesis 1 stopped being "Heaven" at the Fall. What we call "Heaven" today is not the same place called "Heaven" in Genesis 1.
But in YOUR narrative, "Heaven" stopped being "Heaven" in Gen 1:8, way before the fall, and immediately after it was named "Heaven".
"Seas" are not pools of water under the crust, they're above the crust, the "firmament called Heaven."
He's working with the waters UNDER THE FIRMAMENT called "Heaven" in vs 9, the firmament He made in vs 7, the one He named "Heaven" in Vs 8.
This is based off the false premise that "Seas" are pools of water under the crust, and not under the atmosphere/sky/space.
It was based off the premise that God wouldn't name something in one verse, and then use the name for something completely different in the very next verse. That leads to confusion, and God is not a god of confusion, but of order. When He names something, he doesn't immediately turn around and use that name for something completely different. C'mon JR, you're better than this.
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So we have water on the sphere of the earth, and God put a "raqia" in the midst of the waters, to divide the waters from the waters.
The "raqia" divided the waters above from the waters below.
Yep. But we don't know what that "raqia" is made of. Scripture doesn't tell us.
God called the "raqia" Heaven. End of the second day, but notice that this is the only time in the 6 days that the Bible does not say it was good. Why? Because God wasn't done yet with what he was doing.
You don't call something very good if you're not done with it.
Yes, you're exactly right. He wasn't done with it, and so He keeps working on it the next day, in the next verse. So the "heaven" in vs 8 is the same as the "heaven" in vs 9.
God made the dry land appear on the surface of the earth, forming large pools of water.
Yes, under "heaven"--the firmament he made and worked on the previous day, when He didn't say "good". Not under the crust.
Why would God say "raqia" 5 times without clarifying "of the heavens" and then the next 4 (raqia is used 9 times in Genesis 1) he does clarify "of the heavens"?
If you are talking about an automobile, and you use the word multiple times, you don't need to clarify "of the driving" unless you were talking about a different kind of automobile than one "of the driving" kind.
Let's say Henry Ford designed and built an automobile. And in the early stages, he just called it "the automobile". As it was nearing completion, and he was ready to unveil it before the public, he figured he better name it. So he named it "Model A". From then on, whenever he referred to his product, he called it the "Model A automobile", so everybody would be sure he was talking about his only automobile. Then Ford went out of the automobile business, but he would often look back on his venture with pride, and talk of his "Model A" or his "automobile".
Now, some well-meaning TOL enthusiasts studied Ford's notes and the specifications of the Model A, and decided that Ford really built two automobiles, one called "Model A", and another called "Model A automobile". The description of the Model A's invention was very interesting, and showed quite obviously that the Model A was really the Model A automobile, but that didn't fit our TOL'ers' understanding of the production of the two vehicles Ford had built, so they propagated a story about how Ford's notes and specifications were really referring to two automobiles.
Same thing here: the first 5 times, God is talking about one firmament, the next 4 He's talking about another firmament, clarified by "of the heavens."
The first 4 times, He hadn't named it yet. He named it the fourth time. After He named it, He used its name, but also its description sometimes. Like "Model A automobile".
Walt's theory relies on the assumption that the waters of the great deep (from the Flood) are the same waters in Genesis 1:2, the "Deep," and in Genesis 1:6-7, the waters under the firmament.
Then Walt's theory is bankrupt, because the waters under the firmament are expressly the same as the waters under the heavens in Gen 1:9. Read it, don't just reply.
