Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?

[expos4ever]

confession through projection

You keep repeating the same meaningless phrase. My point was clear - please address it: you are attempting to dupe the unsophisticated reader who does not understand that all sorts of other factors can cause infections to increase even if masks are acting to lessen the degree of increase.

Please explain why I am incorrect to level such an accusation. And please use an actual argument, not a meaningless word salad.

 

[Yorzhik]

"I am talking only about the disease, not the death by reaction to the disease".

This sounds very much like the misleading argument that only 6 % of covid deaths are attributable to the virus, the other 94% are attributable to other conditions (diabetes, asthma, heart disease, etc.).

Whether you die "directly" from covid, or whether the virus "combines" with other diseases to kill you, you are still dead. The important point is that had you not contracted covid, you would not have died from these other diseases (at least not nearly as soon).

Irrelevant.

And it would be nice to have some credible evidence for these other claims of yours.

It was in the post. You missed it not because you are stupid.

And now I shall compliment you. You missed it because you are evil. Yes, yes, I know most people would not consider being called evil a compliment, but you, like the Joker, just want to watch the world burn and being recognised for your true nature makes you smile. Good luck with that.

 

[marke]

It's more than that. You will not allow ANY argument from ANY angle, to persuade you in any manner or to any degree, no matter how compelling the argument. You've done it again with this three sentence post! There hasn't been any stem cell research associated with the significantly more effective and less problematic vaccines and you can learn all you want about mRNA technology that you want with things that have been published BEFORE the vaccines came out. They've been working on mRNA vaccines since the 1990s. If it were a treatment for cystic fibrosis or cancer you'd have no problem with it whatsoever. But you don't care about any of that. You don't want to know and refuse to learn.

You don't get to get to ignore every piece of information except those that feed into your hysteria and pretend to be reasonable.

I will not take the mandated vaccine the leftist government is bribing Americans to take. I don't want free beer, lottery tickets, meal tickets, or anything else the government tries to bribe people with. I just want to be left alone so I can follow up on all the current reports listing the pros and cons of the vaccines.

 

[marke]

Again, as you have been repeatedly told, there are many variables other than masks that contribute to covid levels. So unless your analysis accounts for these other factors, the chart proves nothing.

You know this - it is not plausible that you lack the cognitive capabilities to recognize this.

So what is the only conclusion: you are intentionally spreading falsehoods. And this is not news - it is the only tool available to you to promote your position.

The attempts to stamp out the virus using man-made experimental solutions have proven to be a failure except that the experimental 'cures' for the virus are destroying the US economy. It is time for leftists to give up their continued efforts to stamp out the virus with methods that are hurting tens of millions of Americans in the hope of maybe prolonging the lives of a few thousand old people.

 

[marke]

"I am talking only about the disease, not the death by reaction to the disease".

This sounds very much like the misleading argument that only 6 % of covid deaths are attributable to the virus, the other 94% are attributable to other conditions (diabetes, asthma, heart disease, etc.).

Whether you die "directly" from covid, or whether the virus "combines" with other diseases to kill you, you are still dead. The important point is that had you not contracted covid, you would not have died from these other diseases (at least not nearly as soon).

And it would be nice to have some credible evidence for these other claims of yours.

We need to pull back on efforts to stamp out the virus for the sake of thousands and try to recover from the damage the 'fix' has done to tens of millions and the economy.

 

[marke]

Not any more it isn't.

It has gone the EXACT SAME TESTING that any other drug that has ever been given emergency use authorization (EUA). In fact, the EUA standards where heightened for approval of the COVID 19 vaccines.


The science suggests that doing so for COVID 19 would yield no benefit.

The problem is that people who had it a year ago are taking this science as an excuse for them not to get the vaccine either. Dumb!

Further, hospitals across the country were / are being given money for every COVID case that walks through the door. That along with a political desire to make the pandemic look as bad as possible people who were NOT symptomatic were counted as cases of COVID and PCR testing procedures were manipulated to show greater positivity rates. In short, just because you've been told you had COVID doesn't mean you actually did and if you weren't symptomatic then even if you have been exposed to the virus, your immunity to it is at best unknown.


That's cool but getting the virus comes with a significant risk of a miserable death (not to mention the risk of spreading the disease to others) and the study you cite says that you get the same benefit from the vaccine which has no such risk. Not only that but we can distribute the vaccine much more quickly that the disease can spread, thereby ending this pandemic far more quickly.

Clete

How much testing has been done and for how long? We should not rush into something that will possibly kick our butts in future consequences that are not yet known.

Development of COVID-19 vaccines utilizing gene therapy technology

The development of COVID-19 vaccines

academic.oup.com

Although these vaccines are highly effective in preventing COVID-19 for a short period, safety and efficiency evaluations should be continuously monitored over a long time period.

 

[marke]

You keep repeating the same meaningless phrase. My point was clear - please address it: you are attempting to dupe the unsophisticated reader who does not understand that all sorts of other factors can cause infections to increase even if masks are acting to lessen the degree of increase.

Please explain why I am incorrect to level such an accusation. And please use an actual argument, not a meaningless word salad.

If you want to wear a purple hat with green glasses to keep from catching covid then go ahead, but you should know there is insufficient scientific support to claim those measures will increase your protection against covid, just as there are insufficient scientific supports to the claim that masks prevent infections from covid.

 

[way 2 go]

I will not take the mandated vaccine the leftist government is bribing Americans to take. I don't want free beer, lottery tickets, meal tickets, or anything else the government tries to bribe people with. I just want to be left alone so I can follow up on all the current reports listing the pros and cons of the vaccines.

Florida STRIKES DOWN the Mask!

an appeals court has ruled it unconstitutional, the government can't force you to wear a mask

 

[way 2 go]

Again, as you have been repeatedly told, there are many variables other than masks that contribute to covid levels. So unless your analysis accounts for these other factors, the chart proves nothing.

You know this - it is not plausible that you lack the cognitive capabilities to recognize this.

So what is the only conclusion: you are intentionally spreading falsehoods. And this is not news - it is the only tool available to you to promote your position.

I can show mask had no significant effect vs no masks areas

feel free to prove otherwise

Sweden vs Chile

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I have a study that backs this up , masks statistically ineffective

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

----------------
"Case growth was independent of mandates at low and high rates of community spread, and mask use did not predict case growth during the Summer or Fall-Winter waves."
Methods:
------------------

all you have is propaganda


I can show another reason mask don't work 8:36 min mark

 

[way 2 go]

link to page with video
Given that cigarette smoke is the same size as the respiratory aerosols that carry 99.9% of the exhaled virus, exhaling cigarette smoke with various masks provides us the ability to easily visualize the efficacy of different masks in containing these aerosols. By the same token, the ability to smell cigarette smoke through a mask allows a handy trick to test the efficacy of masks in protecting users from SARS-CoV-2, flu, and other viruses carried in respiratory aerosols (indeed, the "smell test" is one of the qualitative ways that N-95's are fit-tested).

 

[Clete]

I will not take the mandated vaccine the leftist government is bribing Americans to take.

There is no government vaccine mandate - ANYWHERE - and no national "bribe" either.

I don't want free beer, lottery tickets, meal tickets, or anything else the government tries to bribe people with.

Only state and local government are doing such things and none of them are forcing people to take either the vaccine or the payment.

I just want to be left alone so I can follow up on all the current reports listing the pros and cons of the vaccines.

This is a lie, probably as much to yourself as it was to me. You aren't the least bit interested in any report that has a scintilla of information that doesn't feed into you fear mongering paradigm. This thread is more than enough proof of that. You ignore entirely any argument made against you and then later repeat the refuted crap as though it had never been addressed. You might as well go be a Democrat.

Clete

 

[Clete]

How much testing has been done and for how long? We should not rush into something that will possibly kick our butts in future consequences that are not yet known.

This question has been asked and answered more times than I can remember.

These vaccines have gone through the exact same testing as any other drug that has received similar approvals in the past. If anything the standards were heightened for the COVID-19 vaccines, not lowered. The speed with which they were made available is not a function of a lack of testing but rather of a lack of governmental red tape which Trump took a chain saw too.

Development of COVID-19 vaccines utilizing gene therapy technology

The development of COVID-19 vaccines

academic.oup.com

Although these vaccines are highly effective in preventing COVID-19 for a short period, safety and efficiency evaluations should be continuously monitored over a long time period.

And, once again, you ignore all the information that has already been presented. The efficacy of the vaccine and the longevity of the immunity appears to be similar to that of natural immunity. The science suggests that natural immunity is stronger in some way and that the vaccine immunity is stronger in others but that both yield an immunity that lasts for at at least 6 - 8 months.

Clete

 

[Clete]

link to page with video
Given that cigarette smoke is the same size as the respiratory aerosols that carry 99.9% of the exhaled virus, exhaling cigarette smoke with various masks provides us the ability to easily visualize the efficacy of different masks in containing these aerosols. By the same token, the ability to smell cigarette smoke through a mask allows a handy trick to test the efficacy of masks in protecting users from SARS-CoV-2, flu, and other viruses carried in respiratory aerosols (indeed, the "smell test" is one of the qualitative ways that N-95's are fit-tested).

Also, have a smoker take a puff off his cigarette and then blow the smoke out through his mask and see where the smoke goes and if anyone can smell it.

How much do you want to bet that it goes farther than six feet and that people from all the way across the room will be able to smell it - even with their own masks on?!

Clete

 

[Eric h]

I have a study that backs this up , masks statistically ineffective

I remember going to a fire prevention training. The guy said; when you see people in the movies running through burning buildings with a cloth over their mouths; this will not save them from carbon monoxide poisoning. It only stops their face getting dirty.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I remember going to a fire prevention training. The guy said; when you see people in the movies running through burning buildings with a cloth over their mouths; this will not save them from carbon monoxide poisoning. It only stops their face getting dirty.

In the real world, putting a wet cloth or rag (and yes, it has to be WET) over your mouth when you are trying to escape a burning building is to prevent you from inhaling hot smoke, which would otherwise burn your lungs, by cooling the smoke down. Running out of the burning building is what will save you from the CO.

It's not meant to prevent the smoke from getting into your lungs, it's to prevent you from burning your lungs.

 

[Eric h]

It's not meant to prevent the smoke from getting into your lungs,

Because it can't

it's to prevent you from burning your lungs.

Thats the water doing this and not really the cloth.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Because it can't

False. It only filters out some of the particulates. It doesn't stop gases coming through or around it.

Thats the water doing this and not really the cloth.

The cloth holds the water. The water cools down the smoke that will enter your lungs to prevent it from burning them.

 

[Right Divider]

The cloth holds the water. The water cools down the smoke that will enter your lungs to prevent it from burning them.

Fires produce an effect very similar to a Joe Biden speech: A lot of hot air.

 

[marke]

There is no government vaccine mandate - ANYWHERE - and no national "bribe" either.


Only state and local government are doing such things and none of them are forcing people to take either the vaccine or the payment.


This is a lie, probably as much to yourself as it was to me. You aren't the least bit interested in any report that has a scintilla of information that doesn't feed into you fear mongering paradigm. This thread is more than enough proof of that. You ignore entirely any argument made against you and then later repeat the refuted crap as though it had never been addressed. You might as well go be a Democrat.

Clete

No 'giveaways" to entice people to take the vaccine? Yes, there are, just like there were all sorts of giveaway gimmicks tried to entice Americans to willingly buy into the tax-hike Obamacare boondoggle.

 

[marke]

This question has been asked and answered more times than I can remember.

These vaccines have gone through the exact same testing as any other drug that has received similar approvals in the past. If anything the standards were heightened for the COVID-19 vaccines, not lowered. The speed with which they were made available is not a function of a lack of testing but rather of a lack of governmental red tape which Trump took a chain saw too.


And, once again, you ignore all the information that has already been presented. The efficacy of the vaccine and the longevity of the immunity appears to be similar to that of natural immunity. The science suggests that natural immunity is stronger in some way and that the vaccine immunity is stronger in others but that both yield an immunity that lasts for at at least 6 - 8 months.

Clete

In spite of all your confidence, people like this are suffering greatly for taking the vaccine while you make light of it.

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Romney relatives get blood clots from vaccine