But you're not talking about burning someone alive, you're talking about burning someone alive forever. Is it ok to burn someone alive, just not forever? How does "forever" change the morality of the situation?
I've seen other conversations like this, where someone provides scriptures that say a certain thing, and the other person claims "but that's not 'proof'". I guess you probably need to define what you consider would be proof, since you've obviously disregarded the scriptures others have suggested apply. Otherwise you are wasting other people's time.
I think what you are saying is that "perish" = "destruction" = "annihilation"= "completely gone, with no spirit, soul, or body left in earth, heaven, hell or any other place. Am I correct? Then let's talk about "perish", for starters. Here are some verses that use the word "perish" (abbreviated "P", below). I'll comment on the meaning of P, and you can respond.
[Deu 26:5 KJV] 5 And thou shalt speak and say before the LORD thy God, A Syrian ready to perish [was] my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous: P seems to indicate that Jacob was old and about to die. Or do you think he was about to be annihilated?
[Deu 28:22 KJV] 22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. In this case, P is an immediate successor to the Lord's smiting with a bunch of things, which seem to cause the P-ing. If P means annihilation, then that means that annihilation occurs because of the physical things that were listed, i.e., either P doesn't mean annihilation, or it doesn't leave any interval between physical death and annihilation. Iow, there's no room for the judgment promised by Heb 9:27.
[1Sa 27:1 KJV] 1 And David said in his heart, I shall now perish one day by the hand of Saul... David is apparently in fear that Saul will annihilate him and keep him from heaven.
[Est 3:13 KJV] 13 And the letters were sent by posts into all the king's provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to cause to perish, all Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day,... The king commanded that all of the Jews were to be annihilated, body, soul, and spirit
[Est 4:16 KJV] 16 Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which [is] not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish. c'est la vie--if the king annihilates me, then he annihilates me
[Est 8:11 KJV] 11 Wherein the king granted the Jews which [were] in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, [both] little ones and women, and [to take] the spoil of them for a prey, And now the Jews get to return the favor, eliminating body, soul, and spirit.
[Job 34:15 KJV] 15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. Whoops, I hope you don't die and turn to dust before Jesus comes back, or there goes your chance for salvation, too bad.
[Psa 9:18 KJV] 18 For the needy shall not alway be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall [not] perish for ever. The added "not" was done so to make the translation make sense, and I'm not sure this one helps without it, but it seems to be saying that there IS an aspect of P-ing that is not forever.
My point is that you have latched onto a definition of "perish" that doesn't fit with how a number of verses use it: which is as a synonym of "die". If it is a synonym of "die", then you have to account for the idea that nobody seems to die "forever", at least not the first time, but are resurrected to either life eternal or the other alternative, which is called the "second death" in Rev 21:8. If "perish" is the same as "die" then "second death" could be called the "second perishing", right? But that makes no sense if "perish" (including the first "death") always means to be completely annihilated, body, soul, and spirit.
maybe you're not coming across as clear as you think you are.
Does it help to label me as such? It seems that as soon as you label someone as "ECTist" then you completely disregard what they say. I'm willing to engage in the conversation, because it's an interesting conversation--because I'm open to questioning my presuppositions. Are you? If not, then your thread title is a farce.
I think the bible DOES support the destruction of the lost. And I don't know any ECTist that don't believe that. But the two parties appear to have a different idea of what "destruction" means. Maybe that should be our focus: to determine what "destruction" and "perish" mean.
ok
