Jesus absolutely talked about and dealt with a personal being, Satan (and other names/titles for this individual).
You deny hell and Satan, two things Jesus clearly affirmed. One error leads to another?!:dunce:
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
Jesus absolutely talked about and dealt with a personal being, Satan (and other names/titles for this individual).
You deny hell and Satan, two things Jesus clearly affirmed. One error leads to another?!:dunce:
You are heretical on so many points. The JWs are calling for you.
Ecclesiastes is the thinking of a fallen man away from God. It is not didactic revelation like NT Pauline passages. The key phrase 'under the sun' is also used. The dead do not know what is happening on the earth and their memory fades (people forget about them). They do not watch CNN in the after life. The proof text out of context is the musings of a man away from God, not a statement of doctrinal truth (genre of the book). Other verses do give didactic truth that contradicts your conclusions. The statement does not negate the possibility of consciousness after death, just that the dead are no longer in the land of the living and are somewhere else in the universe without an iPhone.
No.
Adams relationship to God was restored, but the damage was done to Adams spirit and that was passed onto all men especially to godrulz.
No.
Death does not make man closer to God than when he lived.
Resurrection does, but death does not.
To say that death for the believer means that he is closer to God, is a false gospel along with all the other spiritualism you believe in.
LA
You are mistaken. I believe in the Trinity because it is Biblical and True.
I don't believe in ECT because it is Unbiblical and Untrue.
The reason the words to defend ECT are not explicitly in the Bible is because you have to add to and rearrange words and redefine them to mean the opposite of their true meaning to force them to support ECT. You admit the words to defend your false doctrine are not in the Bible, yet you want to continue to believe in Eternal Conscious Torment in Hell. Well go ahead and believe whatever makes you happy. Don't let the words of the Bible stop you.
And the Mormons and Muslims are calling for you. You believe the same as they believe, in ECT.rulz said:
By your own argument, you must be either a Mormon or a Muslim.
Time out on good behavior is not a loophole.
Luke 16:20-25 seems to deny your case, while Luke 16:31 tells how wicked they were.
And again, Gehenna happened to be an actual place in Israel, not another dimension; thus any material relating to it relates to the last days of Israel.
Doormat
New member
Unbelievable.
He said everything is meaningless, etc. This is not true in light of what God/Jesus teaches.
The last chapter of the book is where he comes back to his senses. No one disputes that much of the book is Solomon away from God and his sinful perspective, not divine revelation. Inspiration includes the lies of Satan and men. Job's comforters, so-called, and Job himself were rebuked by God for wrong thinking. Inspiration means these things are accurately recorded, including false statements. Revelation of truth would be from the mind of God, also accurately recorded.
I am not denying the inspiration of Scripture, but interpreting the book as intended, a contrast between the thinking of men away from God and then restored to God. Context is the key.
Even the Psalms have things from the mind of David that are not the mind of God. We consider the poetic nature and do not equate it with clear didactic or historical narrative portions. Proverbs are also general truisms, not wooden literal universal promises (generally, if you train up a child properly, this will bear fruit, but even perfect parent God had Israel go astray; godly parents can have bad kids due to free will, so the verse is not false, but the application of it; Acts 16 it is not always true that because you are saved, all your family will be...in that case/context it was true, but it is not a universal, unconditional promise as seen in Scripture and anecdote).
OMEGA
New member
CONTEXT - CONTEXT - CONTEXT - CONTEXT
Here Jesus has already Landed for awhile and he has been Training and Teaching
the local peoples how to do GOOD Deeds and they are going to know this Verse
and are going to Memorize it and be Ruled with a Rod of Iron and know that
they better Straighten up or else.
Mt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory,
then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
but the righteous into life eternal.
--Their Everlasting Punishment is to Serve the JEWS.--
Here Jesus has already Landed for awhile and he has been Training and Teaching
the local peoples how to do GOOD Deeds and they are going to know this Verse
and are going to Memorize it and be Ruled with a Rod of Iron and know that
they better Straighten up or else.
Mt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory,
then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
but the righteous into life eternal.
--Their Everlasting Punishment is to Serve the JEWS.--
Doormat
New member
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Unbelievable.
Zeke
Well-known member
Stop worshipping a book godrulz, much of it is contradictory to luke 6 and the more excellent way Paul hints at, the christ within is the mystery your stumbling over for a theological dogma that most rational human beings would see it for what it is, elitist divisional tripe.
What is your point? Not everything Solomon said in the book of Eccl. is true. Using an isolated verse in this OT book to negate NT truth is bad hermeneutics. The dead know nothing 'under the sun' on earth in the after life. This does not mean they are unconscious apart from the body in light of other passages that are didactic.
:dead: huh?
Who is worshipping a book?! Interpreting and applying the Word of God is reading, not worshipping. I worship God alone, not ink and paper.
Doormat
New member
What specifically do you believe is false?
The everlasting punishment contrasted rather with the everlasting vitality. There are not non-count nouns in greek.
"καὶ απελεύσονται οὗτοι εις κόλασιν αιώνιον, οι δὲ δίκαιοι εις ζωὴν αιώνιον."
Zeke
Well-known member
That your right to do so, but its also the right of others to disagree with your positional stance, hell is a johny come latley fear tatic that was adopted by the institutional church to keep the converts under its bondage, your no different than your arch enemy the calvinist, JW, etc... your all elitist corperate driven in your thinking, all things are not possible with your god, and you do worship the letter instead of the spirit that needs no book to relay it truth to "all people".
Vanity, vanity, meaningless, meaningless, life is futile. This is a man apart from God, not one connected to Him. In the last chapter, he concludes that all of life is meaningless APART from God, so the key is to remember your Creator from your youth on.
There are other e.g.
Satan's lies are accurately recorded in Scripture. This does not make the Bible false, but the words of Satan as false.
Even Paul said that some things were his opinion, but he thinks he has the mind of Christ. Other times his comments were more 'thus saith the Lord'.
Luke did not get everything by divine revelation. Much of Luke-Acts is observational or oral tradition historical narrative. God superintended the recording of it, but it was not all supernatural revelation in visions, etc.