Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

T

Timotheos

New member
Ardima said:
Yes God is able to destroy the soul, but never makes the claim that He will. In fact it is the opposite; He claims love and salvation for the world. You need to stop equating what Jesus claims that God is capable of with what He has declaired will happen. Read 1 Timothy 2:4-6...
Click to expand...

According to the Bible, The wicked will be destroyed.
(Psalm 37:20, Psalm 37:38, Proverbs 14:11, Psalm 145:20, etc etc etc...)
I equate what Jesus claims God is capable of with what God has declared will happen to the wicked, okay?

Which brings me to LA's point:
Will God save Judas, Hitler and Stalin??

Rev 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

LA
Click to expand...
They will be destroyed by being cast into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. It is not eternal life in torment, it is death.
 
Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
He also said that the torment is eternal. Being burned in sulphurous flames forever is a form of perishing.
 
Ardima

Ardima

New member
Timotheos said:
According to the Bible, The wicked will be destroyed.
(Psalm 37:20, Psalm 37:38, Proverbs 14:11, Psalm 145:20, etc etc etc...)
I equate what Jesus claims God is capable of with what God has declared will happen to the wicked, okay?
Click to expand...

According to the scriptures you provide it is not eternal destruction david is speaking of. The context is clearly refering to the physical destruction while on this earth. What a shame that you distort scripture to contort the will of God into something so vile as the destruction of the souls of the creatures He loves so much to even sacrifice Himself for them. Your mind has a twisted view of God to even think that His love and grace cannot or will not reach every one of his beloved creatures. What exactly do you see when you read 1 Timothy 2:4-6? A God who destroys? Or a God who will do what He wills in this passage?

If you believe God destroys the souls of people He loves; you need a deeper relationship with God. Your knowledge of scripture is great, but your understanding of God's love, character, and nature are desperately lacking. I pray that you will come to understand God as well as you know the Bible.
 
Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
To have one's flesh continually burned and eaten by maggots fore ever is perishing... it isn't eternal life. It's eternal pain.
 
Ardima

Ardima

New member
Lazy afternoon said:
Will God save Judas, Hitler and Stalin??

Rev 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

LA
Click to expand...

What is to be burned in the lake of fire? Is it the souls of those thrown in or is it the deeds (sin or otherwise) which they have done? And what is destroyed therein? (1 Corinthians 3:15)
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Ardima said:
What is to be burned in the lake of fire? Is it the souls of those thrown in or is it the deeds (sin or otherwise) which they have done? And what is destroyed therein? (1 Corinthians 3:15)
Click to expand...

2Pe 3:5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
2Pe 3:6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
 
Ardima

Ardima

New member
Furthermore, what is it about Judas, Hitler, and Stalin that makes them any more vile than you and I when we were without the knowledge of Jesus Christ? Sin is not compared with the things which we have done toward each other, it is measured by our lack of perfection compared to the Glory of God. In our minds their sins were greater, but compared to the Eternal God all sins are equal of the same end: death. Death is what Christ conquered for all. Our relationship with him determines whether or not our residence is in New Jerusalem in the presence of God or outside of its splender.
 
Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
Ardima said:
Furthermore, what is it about Judas, Hitler, and Stalin that makes them any more vile than you and I when we were without the knowledge of Jesus Christ? Sin is not compared with the things which we have done toward each other, it is measured by our lack of perfection compared to the Glory of God. In our minds their sins were greater, but compared to the Eternal God all sins are equal of the same end: death. Death is what Christ conquered for all. Our relationship with him determines whether or not our residence is in New Jerusalem in the presence of God or outside of its splender.
Click to expand...

Outside are dogs, drug dealers and pimps.
 
Ardima

Ardima

New member
Aimiel said:
Outside are dogs, drug dealers and pimps.
Click to expand...

And yet they still remain reconciled to God, but not able to enter the city for the works they committed in this life. Separated from the direct presence of God's glory, but still within His love, grace, and mercy.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Ardima said:
And yet they still remain reconciled to God, but not able to enter the city for the works they committed in this life. Separated from the direct presence of God's glory, but still within His love, grace, and mercy.
Click to expand...



Mat 22:11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
Mat 22:12 So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Lazy afternoon said:
You are a spiritualist who denies Gods son, the man mediator between men and God.

You are not in the new covenant and therefore not a Christian.

LA
Click to expand...

You have only judged yourself. You also prove that you are a false accuser of the brethren.

Satan has only left you with lying about others to defend his false doctrines.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Timotheos said:
Didn't I already say? Oh Well, not a problem. According to the Bible, the wicked are completely destroyed by God when He returns. Man doesn't kill the soul or the spirit, but God is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.
Click to expand...

You still have not answered the question.

If the spirit of a man dies with his physical body, then why does God say man cannot kill the body with the spirit?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Ardima said:
Furthermore, what is it about Judas, Hitler, and Stalin that makes them any more vile than you and I when we were without the knowledge of Jesus Christ? Sin is not compared with the things which we have done toward each other, it is measured by our lack of perfection compared to the Glory of God. In our minds their sins were greater, but compared to the Eternal God all sins are equal of the same end: death. Death is what Christ conquered for all. Our relationship with him determines whether or not our residence is in New Jerusalem in the presence of God or outside of its splender.
Click to expand...

We are all sinners who need a Savior; however, we all do not sin the same.
 
R

rstrats

Active member
God's Truth,

re: "...why does God say man cannot kill the body with the spirit?"

There is no scripture that says that.
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned



From another thread:


CatholicCrusader said:
First, one must accept a couple of concepts. Hell, and Heaven, are not "places", but rather states of being.

Because we have free will, man is capable of either choosing or rejecting God. And depending on the state one is in at death, they die in either God's friendship or they die separated from God.

Next, since our spirit is eternal (or immortal) and lives forever, we exist either in eternal union & friendship with God (Heaven) or we exist eternally separated from God (Hell). The colorful language that describes Hell in the Bible - fire, gnashing of teeth, etc. - is an attempt to describe the sheer emptiness of being eternally separated from your creator who you were created to love.

These are the states of our being after death; either union with God or separation from God.

Lastly, we must remember, it is our choice. We make the choice to choose or reject God. So this ridiculous phrase "Eternal Torment" is being wrongly used to describe what eternity must be like to be separated from our Creator. And its not that Hell is eternal, its that our spirit is what lasts forever, which is why whatever state we exist in after death is eternal.

Those are the FACTS.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top