Theology Club: Is SaulToPaul an Acts 28 Dispensationalist?

[heir]

You need to read the context because Peter was speaking of the events which began when he was converted on the Damascus road and the events which happened later (Acts 22:1-21) in the same time period, when he journeyed to Jerusalem later in Acts 9:

Acts 22 is about the Acts 9 account up until verse 17, but I believe that there is much time between Acts 9 and the, "And it came to pass" of verse 17, when Paul was come again to Jerusalem and made known the temple vision he had earlier.

Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

Acts 22:18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.

Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

Acts 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

 

[heir]

Yes, Acts 29 combined with Romans 17, studied thoroughly, and rightly divided, is the secret to unlocking the mystery of it all.

only in light of 3 Timothy

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

only in light of 3 Timothy

I have found that 3 Timothy and 2 Titus are interchangeable, when you consider the dispensational significance of the coefficient of total number of words per verse.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Acts 22 is about the Acts 9 account up until verse 17, but I believe that there is much time between Acts 9 and the, "And it came to pass" of verse 17, when Paul was come again to Jerusalem and made known the temple vision he had earlier.

Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

Acts 22:18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.

Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

Acts 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

:up:

Thou hast well said, sister.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Acts 22 is about the Acts 9 account up until verse 17, but I believe that there is much time between Acts 9 and the, "And it came to pass" of verse 17, when Paul was come again to Jerusalem and made known the temple vision he had earlier.

Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

There is nothing all to support that idea, especially since Paul had previously preached to the Gentiles beginning at Acts 13:46-48. And if what Paul preached there was only for the Gentiles who attended the synagogues then why was that word "published throughout all the region" (Acts 13:49)?

If the gospel of the grace of God was not revealed by Paul until after Acts 22 was over then how do you explain the fact that Paul revealed it in His epistle to the Romans?:

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

Then in the next chapter he declared this principle in regard the grace of God:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

Paul was declaring the "good news" of the grace of God in the third and fourth chapter of his epistles to the Romans.

Do you agree with that?

 

[Danoh]

The Link didn't work for me, Danoh the Great...

See if this one does...on the thread listed below that's on MAD

Standard A9D View of Paul's Ministry

 

[patrick jane]

when was that in Acts ? what chapter ? Romans was written in 57 AD from Corinth as Paul was preparing to go to Jerusalem, so where is that in the Acts timeline ? Acts was written between 63 -70, Galatians from Antioch before the Jerusalem council, 1 and 2 Thessalonians are some Paul's earliest letters from 51-52 AD. can you match up the epistles with the timeline of Acts ? how long was Paul's travels and writings ?

here's what i found as far as images:

View attachment 20148

View attachment 20149

View attachment 20150

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It helps me to think of it this way.

In the old testament, on the day of atonement, Israel would gather around and there would be some Gentiles gathered with them.

Was a sacrifice made for anyone NOT GATHERED? For anyone NOT AMONG THE PEOPLE?

No.

If you can see this, you can understand the dispensation of the grace of God, and the gospel of the grace of God.

During his Acts ministry, Paul revealed that Christ died for THE GATHERED.

Post Acts, Paul revealed that Christ also died for those NOT GATHERED.

And, that they were now one.

 

[heir]

It helps me to think of it this way.

In the old testament, on the day of atonement, Israel would gather around and there would be some Gentiles gathered with them.

Was a sacrifice made for anyone NOT GATHERED? For anyone NOT AMONG THE PEOPLE?

No.

If you can see this, you can understand the dispensation of the grace of God, and the gospel of the grace of God.

During his Acts ministry, Paul revealed that Christ died for THE GATHERED.

Post Acts, Paul revealed that Christ also died for those NOT GATHERED.

And, that they were now one.

nicely painted! :up:

THE GATHERED were heirs according to the promise Acts 13:26 KJV, Galatians 3:29 KJV
The NOT GATHERED were in time past aliens from the GATHERED and strangers from the covenants of promise

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

BUT NOW!


Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

 

[Tambora]

I have found that 3 Timothy and 2 Titus are interchangeable, when you consider the dispensational significance of the coefficient of total number of words per verse.

That's because they are the same book; but due to a translation error on the title page of the book, '2 Titus' was mistranslated and should be '3 Timothy'.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

when was that in Acts ?

According to The Scofield Study Bible it was written during the time period of Acts 20.

Do you agree that these words of Paul are speaking of the good news or "gospel of the grace of God"?:

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

Then in the next chapter he declared this principle in regard the grace of God:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

nicely painted! :up:

THE GATHERED were heirs according to the promise Acts 13:26 KJV, Galatians 3:29 KJV
The NOT GATHERED were in time past aliens from the GATHERED and strangers from the covenants of promise

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

BUT NOW!


Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

:e4e:

Yes, sister, we continue to attempt to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Do you agree that these words of Paul are speaking of the good news or "gospel of the grace of God"?:

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

What Jerry has quoted is the good news of Christ. Yes, there is grace in the gospel of Christ. But, the gospel of the grace of God is specifically about certain Gentiles.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What Jerry has quoted is the good news of Christ. Yes, there is grace in the gospel of Christ. But, the gospel of the grace of God is specifically about certain Gentiles.

Once again you try to change the subject in order to cover up your blunders. Earlier you said that those in the church at Rome were not in the Body of Christ at the time Paul wrote his epistle to them because they had not yet heard or believed the gospel of the grace of God.

However, you evidently failed to understand the simple fact that the gospel of grace is found in that very epistle. You say that they were not yet saved. However, anyone with the slightest degree of spiritual discernment knows that Paul would never write these words to the unsaved:

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us" (Ro.8:15-18).​

You are totally confused as evidenced by the fact that you think that a unsaved person can be a joint-heir with Christ!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

However, you evidently failed to understand the simple fact that the gospel of grace is found in that very epistle.

No it isn't. The gospel of Christ is found in Romans.

 

[heir]

No it isn't. The gospel of Christ is found in Romans.

Right!

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Here are the Cliff Notes:


Paul's Acts ministry

1. Gospel of God- foundational truth, Romans 1:1-4 (KJV)

2. Mystery of Christ- when Christ died, he was dying for sins. This mystery was in the scriptures of the prophets, but hidden in them until revealed to Paul.

3. Gospel of Christ - this is the mystery of Christ to all Jews/Greeks who were in the promises. 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV).



Paul's Post Acts ministry

1. Mystery of the Gospel- this is the mystery of Christ expanded to include even those Gentiles not previously included in the promises. The fact that they would be included was a mystery hidden in God.

2. Gospel of the grace of God- This is 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV) expanded to include previously alien Gentiles.



Same Christ, same blood, same cross, same inheritance, same Body...but they had a different route that led them to the Body. One group became an heir according to the promise, the other group became a fellowheir by the gospel (of the grace of God).

 

[heir]

Here are the Cliff Notes:


Paul's Acts ministry

1. Gospel of God- foundational truth, Romans 1:1-4 (KJV)

2. Mystery of Christ- when Christ died, he was dying for sins. This mystery was in the scriptures of the prophets, but hidden in them until revealed to Paul.

3. Gospel of Christ - this is the mystery of Christ to all Jews/Greeks who were in the promises. 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV).



Paul's Post Acts ministry

1. Mystery of the Gospel- this is the mystery of Christ expanded to include even those Gentiles not previously included in the promises. The fact that they would be included was a mystery hidden in God.

2. Gospel of the grace of God- This is 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV) expanded to include previously alien Gentiles.



Same Christ, same blood, same cross, same inheritance, same Body...but they had a different route that led them to the Body. One group became an heir according to the promise, the other group became a fellowheir by the gospel (of the grace of God).

Someone needs to Sticky this to the top of the MAD forum! Very well done!

 

[patrick jane]

According to The Scofield Study Bible it was written during the time period of Acts 20.

Do you agree that these words of Paul are speaking of the good news or "gospel of the grace of God"?:

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

Then in the next chapter he declared this principle in regard the grace of God:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

I agree with everything Paul says -

 

[heir]

I agree with everything Paul says -

Jerry mixes up his terms and then asks everyone else to agree with him. You do well to agree with everything Paul says!