Is marital rape scripturally defensible?

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Arthur Brain

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Feminized men. You have shown that you only like men who support your bias, which always puts women at the advantage- with excuses and indifference wherever it's ugly face is clearly shown.



So says the woman thanking every post of any subject whatsoever she passes on this site which goes against me. It's become part of your routine, because you're a female. I would say 'who never grew up', but that would be redundant- that's why feminism is almost exactly commensurate to ethics with children :rolleyes:

Thanking a post that goes against your bonkers and prissy little tirades would be a sign of intelligence no matter whether it be man or woman.

Go play Call Of Duty or something...
 

Town Heretic

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The origin of feminism was sufferage. As in Suffragettes.
Which was a much opposed good, like voting rights for any minority has been, requiring a struggle against established bias.

However some flavors of feminism seek to undermine gender roles, and in this, there is no argument. A man is a man and a woman is a woman. Now what happens from there is subject to free will, but the scientific concrete has dried long ago.There are biological facts that cannot be bent. Men are indeed different than women and their roles differ because of this.
I'm curious and not entirely sure of the aim here. Biologically we're different. Without question. Roles? Most of those are social constructs.

This topic is typically brought up because a women has experienced terrible things, or has been close to a women that has experienced terrible things. In that light it is good.

If however it had been brought up to demonize men, a form of sexism, then it would have been bad.
:think: I don't think the truth can ever demonize me unless it pretends to represent the rule where it isn't. Most men, as I wrote a while back, will never find themselves subject to censure from a court for their behavior with women. The rest, the minority who will have something to learn. It doesn't have to be the defining moment in their lives. It can, instead, be the moment where their definition began to change for the better.

Also, to believe any good can come from arguing the case against feminism is futile.
And feminism is a broader tent than most who argue against it appear to realize. Somewhere in here a person asked why some feminists weren't apologizing for other feminists, an expectation that pops up among those who want to be outraged and hostile. How many Christians apologize for Westboro? I see some shaking head at it, opposing their practices and some of their ideas, but apologizing?

Like suggesting that an advocate of free speech should apologize for someone else's use, isn't it.
 

Crucible

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pretending patriarchy isn't about misogyny.

The Patriarchs were misogynists?

I love how you all demonize 'patriarchy' like it didn't get us out of mud huts, establish law and order, create a system of barter, built every city and home, and most of all, maintained women and children.

Nah- all about misogyny.

That's why feminism is stupid- women didn't want emancipation until after these fruits blossomed to it's fullness and industrialization began.

But don't let facts get in the way of your own created distortion.
 

Rusha

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I don't see one single feminist apologizing on their behalf,

Considering your defense of males who hit their significant other, not one feminist OWES *you* an apology. It's the delusional mindset of those such as yourself that created feminism.
 

Rusha

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The Patriarchs were misogynists?

I love how you all demonize 'patriarchy'

Oh well now it just depends. It's a generalization due to those who spew and screech the loudest ... such as yourself. You are to the men's movement what Radical Islam is to religion. They live to hate anyone who doesn't agree with and cater to their beliefs ... just as your sole reason for existing is for payback to all those "mean" women who remind you that you have no power to control them and never will.
 

Crucible

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Considering your defense of males who hit their significant other, not one feminist OWES *you* an apology. It's the delusional mindset of those such as yourself that created feminism.

I think a big part of the problem with women is that they expect nobody will put their hands on them because they are a woman, so they go and act the way they act and do the the things they do.

And feminists owe all of men-kind an apology. An apology for reaping what men sowed and then trying to give them the shaft :idunno:

Right when industrialization blossoms and life is easier for everybody- that's when you all wanted emancipation :rolleyes:

How convenient, and to make it seem as something else..

The fact is that feminism's very seed from the beginning was corrupt. So it's no wonder it's the complete insanity it is now.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
I think a big part of the problem with women is that they expect nobody will put their hands on them because they are a woman, so they go and act the way they act and do the the things they do.

And feminists owe all of men-kind an apology. An apology for reaping what men sowed and then trying to give them the shaft :idunno:

Right when industrialization blossoms and life is easier for everybody- that's when you all wanted emancipation :rolleyes:

How convenient, and to make it seem as something else..

The fact is that feminism's very seed from the beginning was corrupt. So it's no wonder it's the complete insanity it is now.

You sound like you are fairly recently divorced...

Or at least not yet recovered from one...

Or would that be called 'annulled' and not divorced?

Do you really think God joined man and woman so that neither can limit the other's sexual access to them?

Lord have Mercy!

Arsenios
 
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Nameless.In.Grace

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Is marital rape scripturally defensible?

Which was a much opposed good, like voting rights for any minority has been, requiring a struggle against established bias.


I'm curious and not entirely sure of the aim here. Biologically we're different. Without question. Roles? Most of those are social constructs.


:think: I don't think the truth can ever demonize me unless it pretends to represent the rule where it isn't. Most men, as I wrote a while back, will never find themselves subject to censure from a court for their behavior with women. The rest, the minority who will have something to learn. It doesn't have to be the defining moment in their lives. It can, instead, be the moment where their definition began to change for the better.


And feminism is a broader tent than most who argue against it appear to realize. Somewhere in here a person asked why some feminists weren't apologizing for other feminists, an expectation that pops up among those who want to be outraged and hostile. How many Christians apologize for Westboro? I see some shaking head at it, opposing their practices and some of their ideas, but apologizing?

Like suggesting that an advocate of free speech should apologize for someone else's use, isn't it.

You have read my words. Do you believe men and women are emotionally identical and biologically impacted identically, and do you believe that a penis and a vagina are the only notable differences between men and women?

Or do you see it otherwise?
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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“The wife hath not power over her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power over his own body, but the wife.”
**1 Corinthians‬ *7:4‬ *ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/1co.7.4.asv

I gotta do who I gotta do man!


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Mutual respect.. This verse shows a surrender to one another... Very important in love. Very rejected in modern thinking usually.

However... It does not justify rape on any level.. Never has and never will.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
“The wife hath not power over her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power over his own body, but the wife.”
**1 Corinthians‬ *7:4‬ *ASV‬‬

I gotta do who I gotta do man!

So where, exactly, do you see the wife's authority over her husband's body when the husband is forcing his sexual "gotta-do's" on her???

Do you really think the Bible teaches that women are to be sexual providers for men with sexual addictions?

Arsenios
 

Town Heretic

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You have read my words. Do you believe men and women are emotionally identical and biologically impacted identically, and do you believe that a penis and a vagina are the only notable differences between men and women?

Or do you see it otherwise?
Again, I think that we're demonstrably different, but that we're largely distinct because of culturally inculcated notions...when we were mostly hunter-gatherers necessity defined us. We moved in search of food and survival, and propagated the species. The shift to an agrarian existence brought the first real notes of ease, allowed for settling, the beginning of meaningful government and life as more than subsistence. Necessity still played a role, but a lot of what had been born of it was refined and institutionalized within the social constructs we fashioned. The industrial revolution saw more of the same, though it also began to lead to a challenge on the point, as women began, over time, to question some of those inculcated traditions, notably the ones that reduced their own right and place within compacts. The challenge of modern life is partly found in that upheaval, as technology has redefined the assumptions at the base of the social order.

We no longer live, largely, in an a world where biology determines roles. Women can provide and men can nurture. Leisure contemplation and the reality of relative plenty, among industrial nations, has reshaped the conversation and expectations. Science has underscored that beyond our reproductive functions we're much more similar than we ever were different and the question becomes, how do we survive that shift and profit by it? Or will it prove too much for us? Will more primitive social constructs breed us out of existence?
 
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Crucible

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So where, exactly, do you see the wife's authority over her husband's body when the husband is forcing his sexual "gotta-do's" on her???

Do you really think the Bible teaches that women are to be sexual providers for men with sexual addictions?

Arsenios

Does the Bible not teach that women were made for the man, and not man for the woman?

Today's society has done a fine job pretty much sabotaging this ordinance and justifying it by singling out verses which, by themselves, seemto agree somewhat with there bias.

The Bible is clear about not withholding sex, which is grave sin among many wives today- and you do not see them taking accountability for it, you do not see people taking issue with it- but as soon as the man sins, you never hear the end of it.

This does not suffice- it didn't then, and it doesn't now. In fact, among the Patriarchs and their multiple wives, they could not withhold sex from any of the women.
It sticks out like a green hat with an orange bill, and yet you all want to continue to make it about this bogus 'equality' that never was and will never be :rolleyes:
 

Arsenios

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Does the Bible not teach that women were made for the man, and not man for the woman?

What does this have to do with women being sexual providers for men with sexual addictions?

By your logic, a woman should also provide heroin to her heroin addicted husband...

Today's society has done a fine job pretty much sabotaging this ordinance and justifying it by singling out verses which, by themselves, see to agree somewhat with there bias.

IF you want to love your wife Biblically, you will forsake your own life for her sake...
BECAUSE
Christ gave His Life for the the sake of sinners...

The Bible is clear about not withholding sex, which is grave sin among many wives today- and you do not see them taking accountability for it, you do not see people taking issue with it- but as soon as the man sins, you never hear the end of it.

OK - So your wife decides to punish you by withholding sex from the marriage, and let us say that this is a grave sin that she should not commit... So at that point, you can ask yourself how to sacrifice yourself to the point of sacrificing your own life for her sake in this sin...
OR...
You can rape her...

Which course of action is the Christian one?

This does not suffice- it didn't then, and it doesn't now. In fact, among the Patriarchs and their multiple wives, they could not withhold sex from any of the women.
It sticks out like a green hat with an orange bill, and yet you all want to continue to make it about this bogus 'equality' that never was and will never be :rolleyes:

This life is not about "fair"... It is about self sacrifice for the sake of your wife, and for your neighbor, and for the world...

The fact that women can withhold sex from their husbands as a tactic in the struggle between the two spouses, does not justify the rape of the woman who says no... The fact that such a withholding of sex is normally just a very wrong thing to do, does not justify raping her... The fact that she is wrong does not make YOUR FORCED SEXUAL SELF-GRATIFICATION right...

It just makes YOU a RAPIST who found a way to get away with it...

It just makes YOU a WIFE RAPER...

And THAT is just plain SHAMEFUL...

Arsenios
 
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Nameless.In.Grace

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Is marital rape scripturally defensible?

Again, I think that we're demonstrably different, but that we're largely distinct because of culturally inculcated notions...when we were mostly hunter-gatherers necessity defined us. We moved in search of food and survival, and propagated the species. The shift to an agrarian existence brought the first real notes of ease, allowed for settling, the beginning of meaningful government and life as more than subsistence. Necessity still played a role, but a lot of what had been born of it was refined and institutionalized within the social constructs we fashioned. The industrial revolution saw more of the same, though it also began to lead to a challenge on the point, as women began, over time, to question some of those inculcated traditions, notably the ones that reduced their own right and place within compacts. The challenge of modern life is partly found in that upheaval, as technology has redefined the assumptions at the base of the social order.

We no longer live, largely, in an a world where biology determines roles. Women can provide and men can nurture. Leisure contemplation and the reality of relative plenty, among industrial nations, has reshaped the conversation and expectations. Science has underscored that beyond our reproductive functions we're much more similar than we ever were different and the question becomes, how do we survive that shift and profit by it? Or will it prove too much for us? Will more primitive social constructs breed us out of existence?

Your words are true.

As long as you recognize that some cave men will be cave men and some girls are happily Sheilas.

As long as all respect all, I'm kosher.

When one says be another for you are not as I or how I say be...

Problems arise. [emoji106][emoji12]
 
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Rusha

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What does this have to do with women b sexual providers for men with sexual addictions

IF you want to love your wife Biblically, you will forsake your own life for her sake...
BECAUSE
Christ gave His Life for the the sake of sinners...

OK - So your wife decides to punish you by withholding sex from the marriage, and let us say that this is a grave sin that she should not commit... So at that point, you can ask yourself how to sacrifice yourself to the point of sacrificing your own life for her sake in this sin...
OR...
You can rape her...

Which course of action is the Christian one?

This life is not about "fair"... It is about self sacrifice for the sake of your wife, and for your neighbor, and for the world...

The fact that women can withhold sex from their husbands as a tactic in the struggle between the two spouses, does not justify the rape of the woman who says no... The fact that such a withholding of sex is normally just a very wrong thing to do, does not justify raping her... The fact that she is wrong does not make YOUR FORCED SEXUAL SELF-GRATIFICATION right...

It just makes YOU a RAPIST who found a way to get away with it...

It just makes YOU a WIFE RAPER...

And THAT is just plain SHAMEFUL...

Arsenios

:BRAVO:
 

Crucible

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What does this have to do with women b sexual providers for men with sexual addictions



IF you want to love your wife Biblically, you will forsake your own life for her sake...
BECAUSE
Christ gave His Life for the the sake of sinners...



OK - So your wife decides to punish you by withholding sex from the marriage, and let us say that this is a grave sin that she should not commit... So at that point, you can ask yourself how to sacrifice yourself to the point of sacrificing your own life for her sake in this sin...
OR...
You can rape her...

Which course of action is the Christian one?



This life is not about "fair"... It is about self sacrifice for the sake of your wife, and for your neighbor, and for the world...

The fact that women can withhold sex from their husbands as a tactic in the struggle between the two spouses, does not justify the rape of the woman who says no... The fact that such a withholding of sex is normally just a very wrong thing to do, does not justify raping her... The fact that she is wrong does not make YOUR FORCED SEXUAL SELF-GRATIFICATION right...

It just makes YOU a RAPIST who found a way to get away with it...

It just makes YOU a WIFE RAPER...

And THAT is just plain SHAMEFUL...

Arsenios

The fundamental meaning of 'rape' means 'to seize'. A wife seizes the marriage when she withholds sex as a device of control. Now, let's say a wife comes home, and she does not want to have sex but the husband forcibly insists. Would that be rape by the technical sense? Yes. But is it rape in the sense of her being assaulted? No- it is an inconvenience wrought on by her husband.

This is something that has always been considered the case through history. It was not until about forty years ago that there was even a notion of 'marital rape'. No doubt, this had everything to do with feminism and the ridiculous platitudes that came out of it- an excessive demand for emancipation in everything, including marriage.

Many women embrace an appearance of victimization, because it has gotten to a point where it is a prospect for them. So long as you refuse to acknowledge it, and consistently warp everything to make it about men and not them, that insanity will continue to evolve.

That's the real shame- men in the 1st World being afraid of marriage because it's like making a deal with the Devil- the public and the courts automatically presume that he is in the wrong, or that she is in distress, and so men typically cannot afford any sort of problem with the wife- so you're right, a man puts his life at stake for her. The difference is that it isn't from an external source in which he's staking himself :rolleyes:
 
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