Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?

[way 2 go]

how are you applying these verses to your life.

Luk 12:33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.


Act 4:34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold

Man is to live by every word of God . . . not just some . . . but all.

I practice generous charity.

How do you adhere to these biblical instructions?

since you have not sold all that you have
you show that you understand these verses were not written to you do
exactly as they say but you can learn from them.

 

[godrulz]

Acts 28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.

Christianity is not a false sect or cult. Opposers can call it such, but it is not. It is not incorrect to say that SOME vs all Calvinists (beloved57), KJV-only, MAD turn their views into divisive sects or almost cults. Opposing these wrong views is not opposing God or the Bible.

If the verse is an attempt to deflect criticism and resist evidence-based views, you are not rightly handling the Word (ironically, either is ultra/hyper-disp).

 

[godrulz]

says the one who has to explain away verses that contradict what Paul's gospel and doctrine says, the one that doesn't believe scripture means what it says, as it says it and to whom it says it

I fully affirm Pauline truth and likely agree with you on it. I disagree with the limited, supposed, circ gospel that makes a caste system in the early church and is a denial of His finished work.:drum:

 

[godrulz]

Paul went to whom he was sent, when he was sent and not before he was sent. He was sent more than once: first to the Jew first and also to the Greek, then to all men.

You confuse missionary strategy and calling with the one core gospel message/soteriology. Your disp view is wrong, but we agree about Paul.

 

[godrulz]

There were two very real gospels at the writing of Galatians (it's been shown over and over Galatians 2:7 KJV) and yet had anyone preached any other gospel unto the Galatians than that which Paul (or those with him) preached unto them, "let him be accursed".

This is not exegesis/sound NT theology, but wrong paradigm.

The two gospels in Galatians 1 are a contrast between a false gospel of faith/works (heretical Judaizers that you turn into a true circ gospel?!) and the one true gospel of grace/faith, not works.

Gal. 2 is a demarcation of ministry, not two true gospels. The Greek genitive is an issue here, so relying on KJVO is going to mislead you when you proof text this and ignore the context and the rest of the NT principles.

 

[godrulz]

Acts is selective history, historical narrative, not didactic :bowser:

You forget transitional....there are didactic issues in Acts, but Pauline writing (not your girlfriend) is more didactic. Historical narrative is a different genre and must be interpreted, not proof texted.

 

[godrulz]

You tell us. Have you sold all of your possessions and you now live communally awaiting the restoration of Israel? Why or why not?

Exactly. This was descriptive, historical narrative, an observation of something they did on this occasion. It is not prescriptive and intended to teach Christian communism. We can interpret and apply it based on genre, context WITHOUT wrong MAD assumptions. Your wrong assumptions lead to wrong conclusions. Learn to exegete instead of prooftext/eisegesis.

 

[godrulz]

how are you applying these verses to your life.

Luk 12:33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.


Act 4:34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold

What is your point? This is not proof of MAD at all.

One time, Jesus said take stuff for the journey. Another time he said to not take stuff and rely on hospitality. This is not a contradiction, proof of MAD, proof of more than one gospel, etc. Each context must be interpreted on its own merits and in light of all relevant verses.

Using MAD logic, we could disprove no end to legit doctrines. You guys need a course in hermeneutics and NT biblical theology.

 

[godrulz]

Yikes.

While Acts is much of an historical narrative, it is not merely that. The author fleshes out, and shows, how the Apostles put into place all that which Christ had spoken to them for 40 days after His resurrection, namely "the things pertaining to the kingdom of God" (Acts 1:3). In other words, the Church and her government.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Last time I checked, doctrine is didactic. :AMR:

Then again, this is not:
http://tinyurl.com/mwdbh83

AMR

He is mocking and misquoting me. It is true that Acts is historical narrative, transitional, selective history (like Gospels), but I did not say it is also not didactic (though you guys usually condemn Pentecostals for making our view on tongues/Spirit baptism invalid because Acts is historical narrative...double standard?).

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

He is mocking and misquoting me. It is true that Acts is historical narrative, transitional, selective history (like Gospels), but I did not say it is also not didactic (though you guys usually condemn Pentecostals for making our view on tongues/Spirit baptism invalid because Acts is historical narrative...double standard?).

I do not. I simply show that the didactic nature of tongues, etc., was to establish the authority of the apostles' authority as they laid the foundation of the church. Once the foundation is laid, nothing more is needed. Like those that you cavil against, please do not assign more to what I have argued. Just sayin'.

AMR

 

[way 2 go]

Originally Posted by way 2 go
how are you applying these verses to your life.

Luk 12:33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.
Act 4:34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold

What is your point? This is not proof of MAD at all.

it is proof of Mid Acts Dispensation

One time, Jesus said take stuff for the journey. Another time he said to not take stuff and rely on hospitality. This is not a contradiction,

your right it is not a contradiction

it is a

Dispensation {a certain order, system, or arrangement}

proof of MAD, proof of more than one gospel, etc. Each context must be interpreted on its own merits and in light of all relevant verses.

Jesus preached the kingdom of God
Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"

has Israel received their kingdom? :nono: because of Paul

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Paul's gospel is not about a kingdom for Israel

Peter believed Jesus would return very soon

Act 3:19 Therefore repent and convert so that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Act 3:20 And He shall send Jesus Christ, who before was proclaimed to you,
Act 3:21 whom Heaven truly needs to receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of His holy prophets since the world began.

Using MAD logic, we could disprove no end to legit doctrines. You guys need a course in hermeneutics and NT biblical theology.

God told Noah to build a boat.
Peter walked on water.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Paul's gospel is not about a kingdom for Israel

Error.

http://rscottclark.org/2003/09/the-israel-of-god/

http://www.faithbibleonline.net/MiscDoctrine/DispCov.htm

AMR

 

[Nick M]

Thanks for providing footnotes to commentary but not scripture.

 

[Nick M]

Exactly. This was descriptive, historical narrative, an observation of something they did on this occasion.

Thanks for agreeing with us. It isn't written to you. It was a different way God was dealing with people at a different time.

 

[Nick M]

Nice Nick

But Peter's sword move was before the passage under review. So was the one about the twelve not understanding the mission, your evidence is for a lack of a better term, irrelevant context.

3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God, 4 rose from supper and laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself. 5 After that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. 6 Then He came to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, “Lord, are You washing my feet?”

7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.”

8 Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”

Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”

Once again, on the night he was offered up, Peter rebuked him and had no idea what was going on. He opened their mind to the kingdom and what was written about it and him.

Acts 1, will you now restore Israel? Why would a disciple ask that if they knew of the Body of Christ? Because they didn't.

 

[Nick M]

Are you paying attention rulz?

Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The context of James is different than the context of Paul. They use the same e.g. to make different, valid points. They both preached the one gospel of grace through faith, not works. Rejecting James as church truth is shoddy NT theology.

Yup.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2832448#post2832448

Nick-- the above is how it is done. Q.E.D.

AMR

 

[Nick M]

James 2

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Galatians 2

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

 

[Brother Vinny]

James 2

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Galatians 2

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Assuming James is even speaking of the same thing when he refers to "justifies" (I don't), the below Venn diagram^* nicely harmonizes Paul's statement with James' without resorting to dispensationalist theology.

^{*Provided because I know how much dispensationalists like charts and such.}

 

[Nick M]

Assuming James is even speaking of the same thing when he refers to "justifies"

He is. Love God with all your heart mind and soul. Love your neighbor as yourself. All the law hangs on these things. James is talking about works of the law, including Israelite ceremony.

Matthew 22

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

This is keeping the Sabbath and not eating unclean animals. As well as giving your brother a coat when he is cold. For there is no difference.

Matthew 19

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[e] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

To enter into life, keep the commandments. The written law and loving your neighbor as yourself.

Galatians 2

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.