Is Jesus God?

Bright Raven

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The Miltha. The first of all creation for all was created through it. It was given the fullness of the Father, so it is a form of God, a god.

Note Heb 1 the use of the words "O God", ever ask why it was used in the Greek?

If you are sincere about going deeper into my views study what I posted. One learns more when they read instead of just posting.


Peace

So Keypurr, what is the meaning of Miltha. And once you have told us that, who is the Miltha?
 

keypurr

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So Keypurr, what is the meaning of Miltha. And once you have told us that, who is the Miltha?

Miltha has no direct English equivalent. It can mean "word, Manifestation, Instance or Substance.

It is a Spirit being BR, the Son of God that God sent. It was SENT to become FLESH in the body prepared for IT

This is how God was IN Jesus, he sent his Son, his express image, to bring light to us.
 

Bright Raven

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Miltha has no direct English equivalent. It can mean "word, Manifestation, Instance or Substance.

It is a Spirit being BR, the Son of God that God sent. It was SENT to become FLESH in the body prepared for IT

This is how God was IN Jesus, he sent his Son, his express image, to bring light to us.

Sight your reference for the 2nd paragraph and quote it. I did not see one in the Aramaic-English New Testament.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again betsy123,
The WORD Became Flesh, means The WORD referred to in Genesis 1, became human.
We know John refers to Jesus.
We encounter the spoken Word of God in Genesis 1:1 not the second person of the Deity. This is the spoken Word by the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. God the Father is the Creator.
Genesis 1:3 (KJV): And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Could I ask if you consider the “flesh” of Jesus was “God the Son” transformed from a Divine Being to a human being? Looking at how you understand the word “became”, and I note you may not like the KJV rendition “made”, are you saying that “The WORD Became Flesh” obliterated the connection of Jesus with the flesh of Mary and hence the flesh of David? The Scriptures clearly teach that Mary was the mother of Jesus and hence part of the flesh of Jesus is from Mary and hence he is a descendant of David.
Luke 1:31–32 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Trinitarians do not like looking at Matthew and Luke’s record of the conception and birth of Jesus. They like quoting John 1:1 and John 1:14, but they do not link these with Matthew and Luke. Thus they try to fiddle with the word “begotten”. For example in the Athanasian Creed: “The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten”, but I understand they believe this is speaking about Jesus being begotten from or before eternity. Compare the three records:
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: [b[therefore[/b] also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Trinitarians do not believe that the phrase “the only begotten of the Father” refers to his conception in the womb of Mary, but note the margin of Matthew 1:20 for “conceived”: “GR. begotten”. Jesus is not the transfer of God the Son into the womb of Mary, but he was begotten by God the Father, by the power of the Holy Spirit and as a result he is The Son of God, and Mary is his mother as clearly taught by Luke 1:35.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

betsy123

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Greetings again betsy123, We encounter the spoken Word of God in Genesis 1:1 not the second person of the Deity.

This is the spoken Word by the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. God the Father is the Creator.
Genesis 1:3 (KJV): And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Could I ask if you consider the “flesh” of Jesus was “God the Son” transformed from a Divine Being to a human being? Looking at how you understand the word “became”, and I note you may not like the KJV rendition “made”, are you saying that “The WORD Became Flesh” obliterated the connection of Jesus with the flesh of Mary and hence the flesh of David? The Scriptures clearly teach that Mary was the mother of Jesus and hence part of the flesh of Jesus is from Mary and hence he is a descendant of David.
Luke 1:31–32 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Trinitarians do not like looking at Matthew and Luke’s record of the conception and birth of Jesus. They like quoting John 1:1 and John 1:14, but they do not link these with Matthew and Luke. Thus they try to fiddle with the word “begotten”. For example in the Athanasian Creed: “The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten”, but I understand they believe this is speaking about Jesus being begotten from or before eternity. Compare the three records:
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: [b[therefore[/b] also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Trinitarians do not believe that the phrase “the only begotten of the Father” refers to his conception in the womb of Mary, but note the margin of Matthew 1:20 for “conceived”: “GR. begotten”. Jesus is not the transfer of God the Son into the womb of Mary, but he was begotten by God the Father, by the power of the Holy Spirit and as a result he is The Son of God, and Mary is his mother as clearly taught by Luke 1:35.

Kind regards
Trevor


We can't really fully describe the Trinity.

I don't think THE WORD is a SEPARATE PERSON - even if they are all in One - otherwise, we're worshipping two or three separate Gods.
 

betsy123

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Trinitarians do not believe that the phrase “the only begotten of the Father” refers to his conception in the womb of Mary, but note the margin of Matthew 1:20 for “conceived”: “GR. begotten”. Jesus is not the transfer of God the Son into the womb of Mary, but he was begotten by God the Father, by the power of the Holy Spirit and as a result he is The Son of God, and Mary is his mother as clearly taught by Luke 1:35.

Kind regards
Trevor


Nothing is impossible with God.

If God says Jesus is His only begotten Son - conceived by and borne to a virgin - and He says He and His Son are One and the Same - who can argue with that?

What we do know is that, Jesus (God in the flesh) was human. How do we know that? THE SCRIPTURES!
 

JudgeRightly

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We can't really fully describe the Trinity.

:thumb:

I don't think THE WORD is a SEPARATE PERSON

From... whom?

- even if they are all in One - otherwise, we're worshipping two or three separate Gods.

This needs to be addressed, but I can't address it until I know the answer to my question: Separate from whom?
 

betsy123

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Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post

Could I ask if you consider the “flesh” of Jesus was “God the Son” transformed from a Divine Being to a human being? Looking at how you understand the word “became”, and I note you may not like the KJV rendition “made”, are you saying that “The WORD Became Flesh” obliterated the connection of Jesus with the flesh of Mary and hence the flesh of David? The Scriptures clearly teach that Mary was the mother of Jesus and hence part of the flesh of Jesus is from Mary and hence he is a descendant of David.
Luke 1:31–32 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

No. I believe Jesus is GOD HIMSELF, who came to us as a human.
 

JudgeRightly

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Nothing is impossible with God.

I disagree with this statement to the extent that it is taken out of context. But that's a topic for another thread.

and He says He and His Son are One and the Same

Scripture does not say this.

Jesus said the He and the Father are one, to be sure. But He did NOT say that He and the Father are the same. Don't fall into the same trap GT has fallen into.

Yes, "one" can mean the same.

But is one crowd of people the same person? or is it multiple individuals?
 

TrevorL

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Greetings again betsy123,
We can't really fully describe the Trinity.
I don't think THE WORD is a SEPARATE PERSON - even if they are all in One - otherwise, we're worshipping two or three separate Gods.
Nothing is impossible with God.
If God says Jesus is His only begotten Son - conceived by and borne to a virgin - and He says He and His Son are One and the Same - who can argue with that?
What we do know is that, Jesus (God in the flesh) was human. How do we know that? THE SCRIPTURES!
No. I believe Jesus is GOD HIMSELF, who came to us as a human.
I appreciate your three replies, but I cannot accept the Trinity.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Jacob

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Greetings again betsy123, I appreciate your three replies, but I cannot accept the Trinity.

Kind regards
Trevor

I accept the Trinity in a particular way. You don't have to accept it every way that you hear it. Compare what you hear to Scripture.
 

TrevorL

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Greetings Right Divider and Jacob,
That's your problem....it's true whether you accept it or not.
I accept the Trinity in a particular way. You don't have to accept it every way that you hear it. Compare what you hear to Scripture.
No, I do not believe that it is true. I have participated in many threads on this subject and do not see the benefit of continually repeating what I have discussed. I believe that there is one God, Yahweh, God the Father, and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Unlike some Unitarians I do not believe in the pre-existence of Jesus, but that he is literally the Son of God because God the Father is His father in the conception / birth process and Mary was His mother Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, John 1:14. Just as any child that has been born, we do not think of the child pre-existing, so with Jesus He was conceived and born and grew in wisdom and understanding Luke 2:40,52. He was made a little lower than the angels, of our human nature Psalm 8:5-6, Hebrews 2:14 but throughout his life he was without sin and his exceptional character of being full of grace and truth is attributable to God being His father and Mary his mother a descendant of David, and the education and care given to him by God His father and Mary and Joseph, and Jesus' exceptional and wholehearted trust in God.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Right Divider

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Greetings Right Divider and Jacob, No, I do not believe that it is true. I have participated in many threads on this subject and do not see the benefit of continually repeating what I have discussed. I believe that there is one God, Yahweh, God the Father, and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Unlike some Unitarians I do not believe in the pre-existence of Jesus, but that he is literally the Son of God because God the Father is His father in the conception / birth process and Mary was His mother Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, John 1:14. Just as any child that has been born, we do not think of the child pre-existing, so with Jesus He was conceived and born and grew in wisdom and understanding Luke 2:40,52. He was made a little lower than the angels, of our human nature Psalm 8:5-6, Hebrews 2:14 but without sin and his exceptional character of being full of grace and truth is attributable to God being His father and Mary his mother a descendant of David, and the education and care given to him by God His father and Mary and Joseph, and Jesus' exceptional and wholehearted trust in God.

Kind regards
Trevor
Well confusion just reigns with you then.

The preexistence of the Word that was God is undeniable. John makes that clear. John also makes it clear that the Word was made flesh.

Jesus is the Word (that was and is God) made flesh

These things are true whether you: believe it; accept it; acknowledge it; etc. etc. etc.
 

Jacob

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Greetings Right Divider and Jacob, No, I do not believe that it is true. I have participated in many threads on this subject and do not see the benefit of continually repeating what I have discussed. I believe that there is one God, Yahweh, God the Father, and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Unlike some Unitarians I do not believe in the pre-existence of Jesus, but that he is literally the Son of God because God the Father is His father in the conception / birth process and Mary was His mother Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, John 1:14. Just as any child that has been born, we do not think of the child pre-existing, so with Jesus He was conceived and born and grew in wisdom and understanding Luke 2:40,52. He was made a little lower than the angels, of our human nature Psalm 8:5-6, Hebrews 2:14 but throughout his life he was without sin and his exceptional character of being full of grace and truth is attributable to God being His father and Mary his mother a descendant of David, and the education and care given to him by God His father and Mary and Joseph, and Jesus' exceptional and wholehearted trust in God.

Kind regards
Trevor

That seems reasonable enough. Thank you. It sounds like you just do not believe in the preexistence of Christ.
 

TrevorL

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Greetings again Right Divider and Jacob,
Well confusion just reigns with you then.
The preexistence of the Word that was God is undeniable. John makes that clear. John also makes it clear that the Word was made flesh.
Jesus is the Word (that was and is God) made flesh
These things are true whether you: believe it; accept it; acknowledge it; etc. etc. etc.
That seems reasonable enough. Thank you. It sounds like you just do not believe in the preexistence of Christ.
I considered John 1:1,14 in Posts #18 and #60. No need to repeat again.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Right Divider

Body part
Greetings again Right Divider and Jacob,I considered John 1:1,14 in Posts #18 and #60. No need to repeat again.

Kind regards
Trevor
Of course there is... your "consideration" is not worth the electrons that it took to post that nonsense. That scripture is crystal clear and yet you do not understand it and attempt to pervert its meaning.

  • The Word WAS GOD.
  • The Word was made flesh.
Only someone that does not want to believe scripture can miss this.
 
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