Is Jesus God?

oatmeal

New member
Where does the Father ever say He is not God?

Does He have to?

If God says that a particular animal is a camel, does He have to list all the animals that that particular animal is not?

Why don't you ask Him?

God is the author of scripture, not me.

For that matter, where does is say that Jesus is a not a girl? or a camel?

For that matter, what else does scripture say Jesus is?

Matthew 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.


Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Matthew 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Matthew 17:22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:

Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Matthew 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Matthew 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.



So, that should be enough to learn something about who God's logos, His word in writing says who Jesus the anointed one is.



Instead of finding excuses for not believing the scriptures, why not seek to learn to believe what is written and quit stewing about what is not written?
 

Guyver

BANNED
I said the Apostles Peter and John believed that Jesus was the Son of God, not God himself.

" He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

Jesus agreed with Peter, and claimed it was God who had given him this understanding. Matt 16

" And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

1 John 5
 

Guyver

BANNED
if you aren't indwelt with the Holy Spirit (and you're not) there's no language I can use to communicate with you

Careful now....if you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit here, you may have just lit yourself on fire for all eternity. Not that you'd care. Anyway......I'll make you a deal....you don't talk to me and I won't talk to you. Fair enough?
 

ok doser

Well-known member
Careful now....if you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit here, you may have just lit yourself on fire for all eternity. ?

i'd say you are acting like a child, but that would be unfair to children (and deny the faith of a child archetype)

no, you're acting like a troll
 

WeberHome

New member
Re:

Re:

.
Can someone be equal with God yet not be God?

Human beings are intrinsically inferior to God in every way. However, there is one who has achieved equality with God via a special promotion.

Phil 2:9-11 . .God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

FAQ: What is "the" name that is above every name?

A: Jehovah (Isa 42:8)

In other words; as a reward for his immeasurable service to God and mankind, the human being Jesus Christ was given the right to us the name of God for his own name; and along with that name, all the honor, power, and reverence that goes with it. So that now, refusal to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Jehovah is all the same as refusing to acknowledge God as Jehovah.
_
 

oatmeal

New member
I said the Apostles Peter and John believed that Jesus was the Son of God, not God himself.

" He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

Jesus agreed with Peter, and claimed it was God who had given him this understanding. Matt 16

" And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

1 John 5

Well spoken
 

oatmeal

New member
.


Human beings are intrinsically inferior to God in every way. However, there is one who has achieved equality with God via a special promotion.

Phil 2:9-11 . .God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

FAQ: What is "the" name that is above every name?

A: Jehovah (Isa 42:8)

In other words; as a reward for his immeasurable service to God and mankind, the human being Jesus Christ was given the right to us the name of God for his own name; and along with that name, all the honor, power, and reverence that goes with it. So that now, refusal to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Jehovah is all the same as refusing to acknowledge God as Jehovah.
_

Interesting.

Certainly, it is commonplace for the offspring to be given the name of the father.

I have the last name of my father, in the USA, that is common for the children to be given the father's last name.

I cannot speak broadly about the Hebrew culture, but most certainly, it is not uncommon for people in scripture to be referred to as the son or daughter of a named person.

Matthew 10:2-3

Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

Matthew 26:37

And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

1 Samuel 1:1

Now there was a certain man of Ramathaimzophim, of mount Ephraim, and his name was Elkanah, the son of Jeroham, the son of Elihu, the son of Tohu, the son of Zuph, an Ephrathite:

1 Samuel 9:1 Now there was a man of Benjamin, whose name was Kish, the son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Bechorath, the son of Aphiah, a Benjamite, a mighty man of power.
 

nikolai_42

New member
.


Human beings are intrinsically inferior to God in every way. However, there is one who has achieved equality with God via a special promotion.

Phil 2:9-11 . .God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

FAQ: What is "the" name that is above every name?

A: Jehovah (Isa 42:8)

In other words; as a reward for his immeasurable service to God and mankind, the human being Jesus Christ was given the right to us the name of God for his own name; and along with that name, all the honor, power, and reverence that goes with it. So that now, refusal to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Jehovah is all the same as refusing to acknowledge God as Jehovah.
_

I had a response to this but didn't get it submitted (and that was a few days ago) so this is not what I had hoped it to be, but....

Jesus makes it plain in John 17 that He was with the Father before the world was. He pre-existed. He was with the Father. Philippians 2:6 says He was in the form of God. Reading that whole passage, it's pretty clear that He took on the form of man after being in the form of God. John 1:1 says the Word was God :

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1

And within a few verses, it is made a personal thing ("he", not "it")

The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 1:2-4

And just to make it abundantly clear, that pre-existing Word is identified clearly with Christ :

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

John 1:14-15

So it seems clear to me that Jesus was God and came to earth as a man.

Now...to the name. I was immediately reminded of Isaiah's prophecy :

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 9:6-7

Those underlined titles appear to be consonant (if not entirely equivalent) with calling Him God (Counsellor an allusion - if indirect - to the Holy Spirit). And the portion about His name is directly applicable to your post. Note that it is in the future. In other words, it is pointing to the child being born. It is pointing to the incarnation - recognizing the identity but seeing it from an earthly standpoint. In other words, it wasn't God visibly coming to earth as God so that the prophecy would say "God is coming to earth" but rather that a provision is being sent. These names could not be given to someone who isn't already Deity (Isaiah 42:8).

So where does that leave us with Him being given a name? Having established His pre-existence (with the Father!), His form as God and His incarnation, that name implies an office. A unique office :

This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 4:11-12

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 5:2-6

That name doesn't mean He became God. It means He was put in a unique position of being Savior of the world. He was not a man (like Saul, for example) who needed to be saved and then was given a new name indicating some change. And as God does not give His glory to another, that name indicated that God published that new name by which salvation was available (and in that name alone). It was a unique office, a unique position, a unique role that could be filled by One and One alone. The name reflects that. And so God is glorified in that new name being uttered and published abroad to the ends of the earth - to the salvation of many. Jesus accomplished that which was given to Him to do by the Father and so He receives public acclaim correspondent to that.
 

keypurr

New member
I had a response to this but didn't get it submitted (and that was a few days ago) so this is not what I had hoped it to be, but....

Jesus makes it plain in John 17 that He was with the Father before the world was. He pre-existed. He was with the Father. Philippians 2:6 says He was in the form of God. Reading that whole passage, it's pretty clear that He took on the form of man after being in the form of God. John 1:1 says the Word was God :

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1

And within a few verses, it is made a personal thing ("he", not "it")

The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 1:2-4

And just to make it abundantly clear, that pre-existing Word is identified clearly with Christ :

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

John 1:14-15

So it seems clear to me that Jesus was God and came to earth as a man.

Now...to the name. I was immediately reminded of Isaiah's prophecy :

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 9:6-7

Those underlined titles appear to be consonant (if not entirely equivalent) with calling Him God (Counsellor an allusion - if indirect - to the Holy Spirit). And the portion about His name is directly applicable to your post. Note that it is in the future. In other words, it is pointing to the child being born. It is pointing to the incarnation - recognizing the identity but seeing it from an earthly standpoint. In other words, it wasn't God visibly coming to earth as God so that the prophecy would say "God is coming to earth" but rather that a provision is being sent. These names could not be given to someone who isn't already Deity (Isaiah 42:8).

So where does that leave us with Him being given a name? Having established His pre-existence (with the Father!), His form as God and His incarnation, that name implies an office. A unique office :

This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 4:11-12

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 5:2-6

That name doesn't mean He became God. It means He was put in a unique position of being Savior of the world. He was not a man (like Saul, for example) who needed to be saved and then was given a new name indicating some change. And as God does not give His glory to another, that name indicated that God published that new name by which salvation was available (and in that name alone). It was a unique office, a unique position, a unique role that could be filled by One and One alone. The name reflects that. And so God is glorified in that new name being uttered and published abroad to the ends of the earth - to the salvation of many. Jesus accomplished that which was given to Him to do by the Father and so He receives public acclaim correspondent to that.


Phil 2:5, it does not speak of Jesus, it speaks of what was IN him.
 

nikolai_42

New member
Phil 2:5, it does not speak of Jesus, it speaks of what was IN him.


Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Phil 2:5-8

And in Christ was this mind (this understanding). But you can't ignore the reason that was said. He - though He was in the form of God - took on the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of man. It is the astounding humility. That someone who was in the form of God would take on the form of a servant in the likeness of man is this "mind". He which was in the form of God became a servant in the form of man. It wasn't man being given an infusion that was Christ.
 
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keypurr

New member
If made in human likeness, what was He before that?

Ask yourself what is YHWH? Jesus tells us the God is a SPIRIT.

Heb 1:3 tells us that the true son is also a SPIRIT.

Phil 2:5 tells us that which was IN Jesus became flesh. And that spirit was a FORM of god.

Heb 10:5 tells us that God prepared a body for his Christ.

Oh my friend, you have read this all before.
 
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keypurr

New member
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Phil 2:5-8

And in Christ was this mind (this understanding). But you can't ignore the reason that was said. He - though He was in the form of God - took on the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of man. It is the astounding humility. That someone who was in the form of God would take on the form of a servant in the likeness of man is this "mind". He which was in the form of God became a servant in the form of man. It wasn't man being given an infusion that was Christ.

True, that SPIRIT, the Miltha, is a FORM of god, but not God himself. What did the DOVE bring?

Acts 10:38. Notice the word POWER. The Miltha was given the fullness of his creator. Col 1.
 
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