Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
Greetings again betsy123, I think by Lon’s comment, he understood what I have said, but he seems to disagree. I am not interested in pursuing this any further.
I will repeat a portion of what I said in the previous Post, and then leave it at that. I have 11 studies on the death and resurrection of Jesus of about 45 minutes each in video format with slides by an English brother that I would like to consider for the next week at least. One series given in the USA, and one series in Australia.
The word “conceived” is a word that appears in the following and the marginal rendition is “Gr.begotten”:
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived (mg: Gr. begotten) in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Why because I quote scripture and stand up for my faith. You banned me for quoting scripture that you can not understand.
Infraction for keypurr: Unnecessarily disruptive
Post: Is Jesus God?
Infraction: Unnecessarily disruptive
Message to User:
This is a Christian (Trinitarian) site. If you want to continue posting here, you need to show some respect in your interactions. And another thing, do not PM the mods about this. It will get you another infraction. The decision to infract you for this is final.
More words from scripture for you JR
saiah 45:5 – "I am the LORD (YHWH) and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
This is pretty simple. YHWH is the ONLY God. So far, so good.
Exodus 3:15 – "Thus shall you say to the Israelites: The LORD (YHWH), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you."
Okay, the God of your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the LORD (YHWH).
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = YHWH.
"Yet for us there is one God, the Father" (Corinthians 8:6).
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).Does this verse imply that Jesus is the God of Abraham etc.? Of course not! Just read it. The God of Abraham glorified who? Himself? No! He glorified his servant Jesus. This is not difficult. Jesus is obviously not the God of Abraham etc. He is the God of Abraham’s SERVANT. Who is the God of Abraham? YHWH. And YHWH is who? The ONLY God. So Jesus is not God? Of course not. He is God’s anointed.
Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him."
Who anointed Jesus? It doesn’t say the Father anointed Jesus, it says GOD. You can obviously see that Jesus is not the God that anointed him. If I said, "The king anointed Bob," would you think that it meant that Bob is the king? Of course not. Jesus is the servant whom God anointed to do his will. That is the whole purpose of anointing someone, to give them the wisdom and power that they will need in order to serve God. Does it make sense to you that God would anoint God with God? Let’s look at a Messianic prophecy in the Old Testament.
Isaiah 61:1 – "The spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the LORD (YHWH) has anointed me."
By reading this verse it is plainly clear that the person who is being anointed is not YHWH. YHWH is anointing this individual. Now watch how Jesus uses this verse to refer to himself. Jesus uses this verse to say that he is the one that the Scripture spoke about. That he is the one whom YHWH has anointed. Who is YHWH by the way? That’s right, the ONLY God.
Luke 4:18-21 – "He (Jesus) unrolled the scroll and found the passage where it was written: ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me,’…He (Jesus) said to them, ‘Today this Scripture passage is fulfilled in your hearing."
Okay now, don’t panic, this is simple. Look at Isaiah 61:1, YHWH anoints someone other than YHWH. Jesus in Luke claims that he is that person whom YHWH has anointed. Next!
1 Cor. 8:6 – "Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things are and for whom we exist, and one Lord (This Lord is not a translation of YHWH, it is kyrios i.e. master, king etc.) Jesus Christ."
It doesn’t get any easier than this. Who is the one God? The FATHER! That’s it, period! The Father is the only one who is considered God. Jesus is our Lord (master, king). You will always see that the only one who is referred to as God is the Father. From the passage above, do you honestly read that and come away with the fact that Jesus is the one God? It is obvious that the one Lord is not the one God. Only the Father is God. It never says, "Peace from God the Father and God the Son." Why not? Didn’t the Apostles know that the Son is God? Not even close! Now get comfortable, and look at the following:
1 Cor. 1:3 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Cor. 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Philippians 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thessalonians 1:1 – "To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thessalonians 3:13 – "To be blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus."
2 Thessalonians 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Thessalonians 2:16 – "May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who has loved us."
Philippians 4:20 – To our God and Father, glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Collosians 1:2 – "Peace from God our Father."
Ephesians 4:6 – "One God and Father of all."
James1:1 – "James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Timothy 1:2 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
2 Timothy 1:2 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
Titus 1:4 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our savior."
Philemon vv. 3 – "Peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Galatians 1:3 "Peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
So who is the ONLY one who is referred to as God? That’s right, the Father. There is no way that in these sentences you can come out with the idea that Jesus is God. They always say, "peace from God AND, I repeat, AND the Lord Jesus Christ." They are separate individuals. Jesus Christ is not considered by any stretch of the imagination, "God" by these authors. If I said,
"Peace from John our president and the chief of staff Mike."
"Peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." (for comparison)
Is there anyway that you would read the verse above and come away thinking that Mike, the chief of staff is the president? No way! But wait, it gets even better.
In these next verses, Jesus, who Trinitarians claim is fully God at ALL times, has a God. How
1 Peter 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Cor. 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Cor. 11:31 – "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus knows, he who is blessed forever, that I do not lie."
Revelation 1:6 – "Who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."
Ephesians 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Ephesians 1:17 – "That the God of our Lord, the Father of glory."
Wow! The Apostles must have drunk a little too much wine when they wrote this. Don’t they know that Jesus is God? How can God have a God? He can’t. That’s why when I ask this question to pastors the only answer they can give me is that it’s a mystery. Do you know how naïve and gullible that sounds?
These verses above are not profound theological statements. They are for the most part just greetings. No one has ever disputed these verses. Just read them! Then read them again! Then yell them at the top of your lungs because "Yes!" You too have been duped by this false, non-Biblical, contradictory and incomprehensible mumbo jumbo passed on as the Trinity.
The Messiah is supposed to have a God because he needs to be anointed by God in order to do wonders and signs on behalf of God. Let’s look at Micah 5:3 which is a Messianic prophecy:
Micah 5:3 – "He shall stand firm and shepherd his flock by the strength of the LORD (YHWH), in the majestic name of the LORD, HIS GOD."
The Christ will have a God? Yes! Who will it be? Look at the verse above, YHWH. Does Jesus know that he is supposed to have a God? Of course he knows! Look below, these verses are all Jesus speaking:
John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
Matthew 27:46 - "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Revelation 3:12 - "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God."
Revelation 3:2 - "For I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."
So Jesus did know that he has a God. As sure as bees buzz. Jesus really needed his God in order to resurrect.
Hebrews 13:20 – "May the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep by the blood of the eternal covenant."
Acts 5:30 – "The God of our ancestors raised Jesus."
Who raised the great shepherd from the dead? The God of peace, the God of our ancestors (which we covered earlier). The Trinitarian alternative is that God raised himself from the dead. But how can God raise himself if he is dead. Then God was not really dead. For that matter, how can you kill God?
If you buy this Trinitarian explanation, than you deserve to be a Trinitarian.
Let me ask you a question:
The Father's name is YHWH
The Son's name is Jesus
What is the Holy Spirit"s name?
This is not meant to be disruptive, teach me.
....because, you cannot answer.
You've got no answer to my solid question!
refer to post #539.
That seems to be your pattern - you leave an issue when you can't answer it.
Your studies did not include having any answer to my question.
You can point to the term "begotten" till the cows come home, but......
.... that also supports my point!
The conception of THE WORD, was not by natural human means (unlike Isaac - who was also called the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of Abraham). It was supernatural.
Therefore, it is more fitting for Jesus to be called the SPIRITUAL Son - a title that you give to Isaac (and not to Jesus), which you can't explain why!
"Jesus," is the human name of THE WORD (God).
Also, I don't know how important it is that Jesus was twice referred to as "a Son"
and not as, "God's Son."
Btw, you have overlooked the continuation of that passage. That also seems to be a pattern with non-trinitarians - leaving out pertinent lines.
You've left out a very important portion of it:
20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
Jesus, is God Himself (as a human).
Matthew 1 supports John 1 solidly!
I'm telling you - you're stubbornly debating with the Scriptures!
Don't insist to attempt to uphold - and spread - false teachings.
You should humbly heed what is clearly explained in the Bible.
Jesus having the name Immanuel any more than Gabriel is God by his declaration to Mary when he said ["Greetings, you highly favored one, the Lord is with you"(Luke 1:28). Nor did Zacharias mean that John the Baptizer was actually God when he was asked, “I wonder what this child [John] will turn out to be?”, and he answered, “Praise the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has come to visit his people and has redeemed them.” - Luke 1:66-68
Noted trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris tells us: “Matthew [in Matt. 1:23] is not saying, ‘Someone who is “God” is now physically with us,’ but ‘God is acting on our behalf in the person of Jesus.’” - p. 258, Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992. (emphasis added)
Your reasoning must be consistent if it is to be taught and believed. Jesus was simply given the name Immanuel since God presense was with us in his Son Jesus. Nothing about the name implies Jesus was God.
Your reasoning must be consistent if it is to be taught and believed. Jesus was simply given the name Immanuel since God presense was with us in his Son Jesus.[highlight]Nothing about the name implies Jesus was God.[/highlight]
Nothing about the name implies Jesus was God the Father.
The Holy Spirit is known by many names and titles, most of which denote some function or aspect of His ministry. Below are some of the names and descriptions the Bible uses for the Holy Spirit:
Author of Scripture: (2 Peter 1:21; 2 Timothy 3:16) The Bible is inspired, literally “God-breathed,” by the Holy Spirit, the third Person of the Trinity. The Spirit moved the authors of all 66 books to record exactly what He breathed into their hearts and minds. As a ship is moved through the water by wind in its sails, so the biblical writers were borne along by the Spirit’s impulse.
Comforter / Counselor / Advocate: (Isaiah 11:2; John 14:16; 15:26; 16:7) All three words are translations of the Greek parakletos, from which we get “Paraclete,” another name for the Spirit. When Jesus went away, His disciples were greatly distressed because they had lost His comforting presence. But He promised to send the Spirit to comfort, console, and guide those who belong to Christ. The Spirit also “bears witness” with our spirits that we belong to Him and thereby assures us of salvation.
Convicter of Sin: (John 16:7-11) The Spirit applies the truths of God to men’s own minds in order to convince them by fair and sufficient arguments that they are sinners. He does this through the conviction in our hearts that we are not worthy to stand before a holy God, that we need His righteousness, and that judgment is certain and will come to all men one day. Those who deny these truths rebel against the conviction of the Spirit.
Deposit / Seal / Earnest: (2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; Ephesians 1:13-14) The Holy Spirit is God’s seal on His people, His claim on us as His very own. The gift of the Spirit to believers is a down payment on our heavenly inheritance, which Christ has promised us and secured for us at the cross. It is because the Spirit has sealed us that we are assured of our salvation. No one can break the seal of God.
Guide: (John 16:13) Just as the Spirit guided the writers of Scripture to record truth, so does He promise to guide believers to know and understand that truth. God’s truth is “foolishness” to the world, because it is “spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14). Those who belong to Christ have the indwelling Spirit who guides us into all we need to know in regard to spiritual matters. Those who do not belong to Christ have no “interpreter” to guide them to know and understand God’s Word.
Indweller of Believers: (Romans 8:9-11; Ephesians 2:21-22; 1 Corinthians 6:19) The Holy Spirit resides in the hearts of God’s people, and that indwelling is the distinguishing characteristic of the regenerated person. From within believers, He directs, guides, comforts, and influences us, as well as producing in us the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). He provides the intimate connection between God and His children. All true believers in Christ have the Spirit residing in their hearts.
Intercessor: (Romans 8:26) One of the most encouraging and comforting aspects of the Holy Spirit is His ministry of intercession on behalf of those He inhabits. Because we often don’t know what or how to pray when we approach God, the Spirit intercedes and prays for us. He intercedes for us “with wordless groans,” so that when we are oppressed and overwhelmed by trials and the cares of life, He comes alongside to lend assistance as He sustains us before the throne of grace.
Revealer / Spirit of Truth: (John 14:17; 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:12-16) Jesus promised that, after the resurrection, the Holy Spirit would come to “guide you into all truth.” Because of the Spirit in our hearts, we are able to understand truth, especially in spiritual matters, in a way that non-Christians cannot. In fact, the truth the Spirit reveals to us is “foolishness” to them, and they cannot understand it. But we have the mind of Christ in the Person of His Spirit within us.
Spirit of God / the Lord / Christ: (Matthew 3:16; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 1 Peter 1:11) These names remind us that the Spirit of God is indeed part of the triune godhead and that He is just as much God as the Father and the Son. He is first revealed to us at the creation, when He was “hovering over the waters,” denoting His part in creation, along with that of Jesus who “made all things” (John 1:1-3). We see this same Trinity of God again at Jesus’ baptism, when the Spirit descends on Jesus and the voice of the Father is heard.
Spirit of Life: (Romans 8:2) The phrase “Spirit of life” means the Holy Spirit is the one who produces or gives life, not that He initiates salvation, but rather that He imparts newness of life. When we receive eternal life through Christ, the Spirit provides the spiritual food that is the sustenance of the spiritual life. Here again, we see the triune God at work. We are saved by the Father through the work of the Son, and that salvation is sustained by the Holy Spirit.
Teacher: (John 14:26; 1 Corinthians 2:13) Jesus promised that the Spirit would teach His disciples “all things” and bring to their remembrance the things He said while He was with them. The writers of the New Testament were moved by the Spirit to remember and understand the instructions Jesus gave for the building and organizing of the Church, the doctrines regarding Himself, the directives for holy living, and the revelation of things to come.
Witness: (Romans 8:16; Hebrews 2:4; 10:15) The Spirit is called “witness” because He verifies and testifies to the fact that we are children of God, that Jesus and the disciples who performed miracles were sent by God, and that the books of the Bible are divinely inspired. Further, by giving the gifts of the Spirit to believers, He witnesses to us and the world that we belong to God.
No, the thread is still here for everyone to read. You received an infraction for being disrespectful, and the system automatically banned you because you've received so many infractions.
Keep it up, and you'll either be banned as a troll, or you'll acquire enough infractions to be automatically perma-banned, which doesn't happen very often.
You aren't as far away as you once were. You agree the Son is the exact image of the Father. I'm very glad to see your pendulum swing back to clearer scriptural truth. :up: (just a bit further and you'll be clear on the truth, you are so close to triune now).You call any one who disagrees with you disrespectful. A forum is a place to share thoughts not just agree to everything. You have no clue how deep my thoughts go or how much love I have for my God and his son. It hurts me to see folks get caught up in the errors of our forefathers.