Is believing/faith a work ?

beloved57

Well-known member
oatmeal

Receiving a gift does not turn it into wages

Yes it does, and it cancels out Grace and promotes works. You said yourself in your definition of receiving a gift it requires effort.

Receiving a gift requires a little bit of effort.

Now what is effort but a synonym for work !

Strongs definition of ergon/works

ἔργον érgon, er'-gon; from a primary (but obsolete) ἔργω érgō (to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act:—deed, doing, labour, work.

So you promote Salvation/Eternal Life by your works, which is anti scripture and Christ !
 

Bright Raven

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From gotquestions.org

Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).

The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” (Titus 3:5). “Not by works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is no one righteous, not even one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

One day, some people asked Jesus what they could do to please God: “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus immediately points them to faith: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent” (John 6:28-29). So, the question is about God’s requirements (plural), and Jesus’ answer is that God’s requirement (singular) is that you believe in Him.

Grace is God’s giving us something we cannot earn or deserve. According to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace—the idea is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned. Since salvation is all of grace, it cannot be earned. Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace. (See also Romans 4—Abraham’s salvation was dependent on faith in God, as opposed to any work he performed.)

Suppose someone anonymously sent you a check for $1,000,000. The money is yours if you want it, but you still must endorse the check. In no way can signing your name be considered earning the million dollars—the endorsement is a non-work. You can never boast about becoming a millionaire through sheer effort or your own business savvy. No, the million dollars was simply a gift, and signing your name was the only way to receive it. Similarly, exercising faith is the only way to receive the generous gift of God, and faith cannot be considered a work worthy of the gift.

True faith cannot be considered a work because true faith involves a cessation of our works in the flesh. True faith has as its object Jesus and His work on our behalf (Matthew 11:28-29; Hebrews 4:10).

To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!
 

beloved57

Well-known member
This isn’t even Calvinism. It isn’t Monergism at all. It’s just wrong, as you’ve been clearly and repeatedly shown. It’s not even heresy, it’s so bad. It’s beyond heresy as pure ignorance and error.
Worthless comments.

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bkarding

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Faith cannot be a "work," in the sense of Ephesians 2:8-9, or Paul's words would be nonsense. Rather, God's grace, our faith, and our salvation are all gifts of God.

I've discussed this in another forum here.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Faith cannot be a "work," in the sense of Ephesians 2:8-9, or Paul's words would be nonsense. Rather, God's grace, our faith, and our salvation are all gifts of God.

I've discussed this in another forum here.

Believing is a Work ! That passage doesn't say otherwise !
 

Bright Raven

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Believing is a Work ! That passage doesn't say otherwise !
Is Faith a Work?
FROM R.C. Sproul Jr. Sep 12, 2011 Category: Articles

The Reformation was born out of the biblical conviction that a man is deemed just in the sight of God, forgiven, adopted, not on the basis of his own goodness, but on the basis of the goodness of Christ imputed to him. Not everyone, however, is blessed with this imputation, but only those who trust in that provision, and in that provision alone. The debate at that time, and to this day, has been characterized as faith versus works. Though Rome would not affirm, and indeed rightly condemns crass Pelagianism, the notion that we can earn God’s favor outside His grace, she does see a vital role for our personal righteousness, even while affirming that our righteousness is the result of grace at work in us, with which we must cooperate. In framing the debate as works versus faith, however, some miss the very nature of faith.

One way to err on faith is in fact to turn it into a “work.” In this error we see “faith” as a substitute for our obedience. This view suggests that in the Garden God required total and complete obedience from us in order for us to be at peace with Him. When that failed, God graciously lowered His standard. Now all that He requires of us is that we trust in Him. The trouble with this view is that it wrongly makes faith the ground of our salvation. We stand before the throne of God and He asks why He should allow us into His kingdom. We boldly reply, “Because of my faith.” God then answers, “Faith? I love faith! People with faith, that’s just the kind of people I want to have around. By all means, come on in.” This error in the end is faith in faith, which faith will surely not save. It makes the cross gratuitous, which is blasphemy.

A second error turns faith into a work, and therefore rejects it as vital to our salvation. This view rightly recognizes that it is ultimately the finished work of Christ alone that saves. It rightly affirms that a man is justified because his sins were punished at Calvary, and the obedience of Christ is his. This view rightly affirms solus Christus, by Christ alone. In order, however, to fence off the first error, to be certain we don’t look at our faith as meritorious, it denudes faith of its true nature, turning it into bare assent. This view defines saving faith as agreeing to the truthfulness of the gospel message. This error suffers from two key problems. First, in diminishing the nature of saving faith to bare assent it leaves room even for, in principle, the demons. James says even the demons believe, and shudder (2:19). That is, they know God exists, and hate what they know. It is possible to know something and hate what you know. You can know, you can believe, as the devil himself knows and believes, that Jesus died for sinners, and still not have faith.

The second error here is that it doesn’t solve the problem. If we want to denude faith to be certain it doesn’t turn into a work, how does assent not become a work? Just as with true saving faith I am the one believing, trusting, resting, so even if it is mere assent I am the one assenting. In short, if faith is a work, why isn’t assent a work?

We avoid both problems when we embrace the wisdom of our fathers, the Westminister Divines. In their Shorter Catechism they ask, “What is faith in Jesus Christ?” and answer, “Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon Him alone for salvation as He is offered to us in the gospel” (question 86). Faith is not a work on two counts. First, it is a gift from God. It is not just received by grace, but is a grace. Faith is something God gives to us. On our own it is not possible, for we are dead in our trespasses and sins. And note that our faith has a specific object- as He is offered to us in the gospel.”

Second, faith, by its nature, is passive. We rest; we do not work. We receive; we do not earn. There is more to resting than mere assent, but there is not more work. Indeed there is no work at all, just resting and receiving the very ground of our salvation- the work of Christ for us.

Rest. Receive. And rejoice.
 

bkarding

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Believing is a Work ! That passage doesn't say otherwise !

Umm... if the verse says we have been saved by grace through faith (and it does), and that we were not saved by works (and it does), then it follows that faith is not a work. Those are positive and negative statements (+ = Saved through faith; - = not saved through works). You can't say both, "You are saved through faith" and "you are not saved by works" if you believe that faith is a work.
 

beloved57

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Umm... if the verse says we have been saved by grace through faith (and it does), and that we were not saved by works (and it does), then it follows that faith is not a work. Those are positive and negative statements (+ = Saved through faith; - = not saved through works). You can't say both, "You are saved through faith" and "you are not saved by works" if you believe that faith is a work.

That verse doesn't say believing isn't a work. Believing is a action man does.
 

bkarding

New member
That verse doesn't say believing isn't a work. Believing is a action man does.

That's exactly what the verse says! If we use the language Scripture uses, as I explained above. In the sense of Ephesians 2:8-9, believing cannot be a work, or that passage is nonsense! Believing is indeed something man does, but it cannot be a work as far as something we can boast about.

Indeed, verse 9 makes clear that believing is a "gift"! So yes, it is something we do, but we only believe because God gives us faith.
 

Bright Raven

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bkarding



No it doesnt !



Thats what makes it a work Duh

You still try to negate Ephesians 2:8-9. If you believe Scripture faith is not a work'

Ephesians 2:8-9 English Standard Version (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Rethink your theology and believe the Scriptures.
 

7djengo7

New member
Believing is indeed something man does
Thats what makes it a work Duh


That's an amazing piece of stupidity you've just handed out. You're saying that to do is always to work. Paul, in Romans 9:10-11 KJV, wrote:

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

What work(s) do you want to claim Jacob and Esau were doing, in utero? And yet, the children were, indeed doing something: they were being not yet born. And, according to Moses, in Genesis 25:22, they were "struggl[ing] together within [Rebecca]."

Try to tell us exactly from which passage(s) of Scripture you imagine you have gotten your idea that to DO SOMETHING is always to WORK.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
bkarding



No it doesnt !



Thats what makes it a work Duh
Your concern to defend the glory of God comes from a perfect place. But your personal extrapolation of that very holy concern is incorrect. Paul himself contrasts believing and working in Romans 4:5 KJV.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Your concern to defend the glory of God comes from a perfect place. But your personal extrapolation of that very holy concern is incorrect. Paul himself contrasts believing and working in Romans 4:5 KJV.
Yes there's a contrast but believing is still a work.

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