ECT II Timothy 2:15 How?

oatmeal

Well-known member
So then, back to the subject of the thread.

What methods do you use to rightly divide the word of truth?

Do you have a checklist of principles to apply to learning about a subject from God's word?

The first one shared is simply to read what is written with many examples
 

Danoh

New member
Induction towards its...

Contrastive Analysis, towards identifying the writer's...

General Rules of Thumb, towards identifying his...

Working Premise towards deducing a...

Conclusion, thus one's...

Assertion.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Induction towards its...

Contrastive Analysis, towards identifying the writer's...

General Rules of Thumb, towards identifying his...

Working Premise towards deducing a...

Conclusion, thus one's...

Assertion.

One part of simply reading scripture is asking the questions

Who, what, when, where, what and how

Ephesians 1:1-2

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Who? Paul, Jesus Christ, God, saints, faithful, you, God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

What? apostle, will of God, Grace, peace

When? It does not specifically say, but since it is written to the saints in Ephesus and the faithful in Christ, we can conclude now for the faithful in Christ Jesus, for there are believers now who are faithful now in Christ Jesus

Where? one of the addressees is the saints which are at Ephesus.

God is everywhere present, Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the throne of God, but we do not know this from Ephesians 1:1-2 only, but have had have learned that from elsewhere in scripture.

What? Grace and peace

How? Does it say how this grace and peace is imparted? Not here.

Grace and peace, not vengeance and wrath.

Grace and peace, not condemnation and punishment

Grace and peace, not sickness and death

Grace and peace
 

sly72

New member
How about the times we are living in now in 2 Timothy 3:1-5:
But know this, that in the last days critical times hard ti deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient tonparents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self control, fierce, without love od goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power, and from these turn away.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
How about the times we are living in now in 2 Timothy 3:1-5:
But know this, that in the last days critical times hard ti deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient tonparents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self control, fierce, without love od goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power, and from these turn away.


Socker ?

i played socker as a kid -
 

sly72

New member
Socker ?

i played socker as a kid -
Cute. There was a time in my life that I studied the Bible as though my life depended on it and realize now that that was the only time in my life that I experienced what true happiness is and what real friends were about.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Lol, you hope this helps.

You know we do not see eye to eye on Paul's ministry, precious heir, loved one in the Lord.

I was asking you what it meant to you.
Whatever problem your having with your eye can be fixed by 1 Corinthians 2:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7 KJV and 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. I gave you my understanding of "rightly dividing". What saith the scripture about it, is what it means to me.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
How about the times we are living in now in 2 Timothy 3:1-5:
But know this, that in the last days critical times hard ti deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient tonparents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self control, fierce, without love od goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power, and from these turn away.

Reading what is written works for that passage as well.

All that has been happening, is happening and will continue to happen.

Finding out what "the last days" means will help our understanding, so we could use another technique, look up the phrase "last days" and see what it means in other places it is used.

There were "last days" before in a general sense. There was a last day for Adam and Eve in the garden, last day of not having Moses law, the last day of being under the law, the last day of Jesus ministry on the earth. Last days does not imply impending doom, but an ending of an era, or time frame. We live in grace, not under the law, there will be an end to this age of grace, we will move on to better things as described in I Thessalonians 4:13-18, that last day of this age of grace is coming, when? We cannot know, it is in the Father's power.

We will leave this present world behind when we are gathered up, the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds and so, so, so, so, shall we ever be with the Lord. When we are ever with the Lord shall be much better than not being present with him now.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Whatever problem your having with your eye can be fixed by 1 Corinthians 2:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7 KJV and 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. I gave you my understanding of "rightly dividing". What saith the scripture about it, is what it means to me.

Great verses.

When you read scripture, what questions are you asking?
 

rainee

New member
So you choose not to believe God when in Exodus 7:1,

"And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet."

He states He made Moses a god to Pharaoh?

I believe Exodus 7:1, why don't you?

Being made a god to one man, even if he is Pharaoh, hardly seems truly being made a god. The Lord could have had a magician say the same thing to Moses and it still mean basically the same thing. To Pharaoh Moses would appear in many ways to be as God. But Moses was himself never anything but what he was. It was God working that made Moses seem so frighteningly powerful... Right? Right.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
For you John's water baptism and the baptism instituted by the one who is mightier than John is of equal value?

Then why did Jesus bother with obeying God's word and living a perfect life and dying for our sins on our behalf?

Really?

To suggest that the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is not an improvement over water baptism is to deny everything Jesus did in humble loving obedience to his Father
You completely misconstrued what I was saying. If you compare the two sides by side; the first is but a symbol, or sign of the blood of the Christ. We are resurrected in a new life without sin through Crist. His crucifixion was not only to be the nailing of our sins down, but the spilling of his blood is to be our motivation to set right the twisted corruption of man. John the Baptist was murdered as well, for the same reasons. However, John the Baptist wasn't the one perfect child of God. Thanks.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
So then, back to the subject of the thread.

What methods do you use to rightly divide the word of truth?

Do you have a checklist of principles to apply to learning about a subject from God's word?

The first one shared is simply to read what is written with many examples
My personal rules of thumb would have to be;

1)Do not read within any parentheses, brackets, or small crucifixes without first, fluidly reading text without them. Although these "explanations" presumably mean well, they often, indeed,
mislead.

2) Keep in mind that biblical texts were written long ago, and read more like Old English, as opposed to the modern version most often read in literature today.

3) Rather than veering wildly trying to make some sense of a particular piece; read a few verses and go back over them without leaning to hard on any preconceptions of the subject matter.

4)As with any reading that is unfamiliar, or seems difficult to decipher, look up words that you aren't sure about.

5)We all have a pretty good idea of what God wants us to do which is not sin at all. Keep that in mind while reading and it may clear some stuff up as well.

6)Also keep in mind that the vast majority of writings are double and triple entendres, so there are multiple meanings. Everything is related in the Bible, and is reciprocal as with existence. Thanks. Hope that helps. All praise is to God.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Being made a god to one man, even if he is Pharaoh, hardly seems truly being made a god. The Lord could have had a magician say the same thing to Moses and it still mean basically the same thing. To Pharaoh Moses would appear in many ways to be as God. But Moses was himself never anything but what he was. It was God working that made Moses seem so frighteningly powerful... Right? Right.

No, it wouldn't to someone who

a. does not take scripture seriously

b. does not take God's own words seriously

c. thinks that God was just kidding around with Moses, playing magician using smoke and mirrors like a con man

d. doesn't take any scripture seriously that contradicts his own pet doctrines

e. all of the above.

God's own statement is clear, God made Moses a god to pharaoh

You don't like it? Talk to God, do you think He will rewrite the book to suit your opinions?

Or are you ready to give God's words the respect He deserves?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
You completely misconstrued what I was saying. If you compare the two sides by side; the first is but a symbol, or sign of the blood of the Christ. We are resurrected in a new life without sin through Crist. His crucifixion was not only to be the nailing of our sins down, but the spilling of his blood is to be our motivation to set right the twisted corruption of man. John the Baptist was murdered as well, for the same reasons. However, John the Baptist wasn't the one perfect child of God. Thanks.

Thank you for clarifying your statement.

The truths of Acts 1:5 couldn't be stated any clearer, the baptism in pneuma hagion was to replace John's water baptism. John stated the same truths.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
My personal rules of thumb would have to be;

1)Do not read within any parentheses, brackets, or small crucifixes without first, fluidly reading text without them. Although these "explanations" presumably mean well, they often, indeed,
mislead.

2) Keep in mind that biblical texts were written long ago, and read more like Old English, as opposed to the modern version most often read in literature today.

3) Rather than veering wildly trying to make some sense of a particular piece; read a few verses and go back over them without leaning to hard on any preconceptions of the subject matter.

4)As with any reading that is unfamiliar, or seems difficult to decipher, look up words that you aren't sure about.

5)We all have a pretty good idea of what God wants us to do which is not sin at all. Keep that in mind while reading and it may clear some stuff up as well.

6)Also keep in mind that the vast majority of writings are double and triple entendres, so there are multiple meanings. Everything is related in the Bible, and is reciprocal as with existence. Thanks. Hope that helps. All praise is to God.

Thanks for the list. The fact the reader can have a method, a system, a check list is the underlying point of this thread.

How are we to know that we are applying ourselves to rightly divide the word of God if we do not a method to rightly divide the word of God?

There are many, many things to keep in mind when studying. One verse or passage is probably not the only passage on any particular subject, it could be, but if we are studying "love" John 3:16 and I Corinthians 13 are important but not the only passages dealing with "love"

when there are many clear verses on a subject, and one difficult verse, we must not exalt and opine on the difficult verse but learn how the one verse fits in the the many clear verses.

One example of an unclear verse being exalted above the many clear verses is Matthew 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Jesus' declaration does not fit with the many clear verses on Jesus' harmonious relationship with God.

"I always do the Father's will" Was Jesus doing the Father's will when he allowed himself to be arrested, tried, tortured, crucified, dying on the cross? Yes. He was doing what the Father said had to be done.

The why would God forsake him?

" I am not alone, but the Father is with me"

If the Father is with him, then the Father is with him.

"I and my Father are one" The son was about his Father's business, they were on the same page! How can you separate one?

The answer, the proper translation of the Hebrew/Aramaic words takes more typing than I will allow myself.

But is clear that the clear verses make more sense, Matthew 27:46 does not fit with the clear verses.

Since the answer requires more in depth work than I did on my own, I would refer the reader to VP Wierwille's and Dr George M. Lamsa's work on this subject.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
Thanks for the list. The fact the reader can have a method, a system, a check list is the underlying point of this thread.

How are we to know that we are applying ourselves to rightly divide the word of God if we do not a method to rightly divide the word of God?

There are many, many things to keep in mind when studying. One verse or passage is probably not the only passage on any particular subject, it could be, but if we are studying "love" John 3:16 and I Corinthians 13 are important but not the only passages dealing with "love"

when there are many clear verses on a subject, and one difficult verse, we must not exalt and opine on the difficult verse but learn how the one verse fits in the the many clear verses.

One example of an unclear verse being exalted above the many clear verses is Matthew 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Jesus' declaration does not fit with the many clear verses on Jesus' harmonious relationship with God.

"I always do the Father's will" Was Jesus doing the Father's will when he allowed himself to be arrested, tried, tortured, crucified, dying on the cross? Yes. He was doing what the Father said had to be done.

The why would God forsake him?

" I am not alone, but the Father is with me"

If the Father is with him, then the Father is with him.

"I and my Father are one" The son was about his Father's business, they were on the same page! How can you separate one?

The answer, the proper translation of the Hebrew/Aramaic words takes more typing than I will allow myself.

But is clear that the clear verses make more sense, Matthew 27:46 does not fit with the clear verses.

Since the answer requires more in depth work than I did on my own, I would refer the reader to VP Wierwille's and Dr George M. Lamsa's work on this subject.
The example you gave is relative to the exponential suffering that we must go through. This suffering very well may not end until our physical life ends. Jesus was only guided by God. He was very strong in his guidance, and was able to accept his destiny ordained by the father. Did his Faith falter upon death? No. Upon the point of his pain that he couldn't bear, God relieved him of his earthly suffering, as he was ripped in twain, or tore in two from top to bottom. To me he was asking for relief, and God did just that. Thanks.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Another difficult verse is John 2:19

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

With all the verses that clearly state that God raised Jesus from the dead, (I have found over 20) why does this verse appear to say the Jesus himself, not God, raised Jesus from the dead?

Acts 2:24,27,30-32;3:15;4:10, Romans 10:9,4:24-25, I Corinthians 15:15, I Peter 1:21

Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, no more than he "destroyed this temple" his captors destroyed his body, likewise, it was God himself who raised him.

The answer is in recognizing the figures of speech used.
 

rainee

New member
Another difficult verse is John 2:19

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

With all the verses that clearly state that God raised Jesus from the dead, (I have found over 20) why does this verse appear to say the Jesus himself, not God, raised Jesus from the dead?

Acts 2:24,27,30-32;3:15;4:10, Romans 10:9,4:24-25, I Corinthians 15:15, I Peter 1:21

Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, no more than he "destroyed this temple" his captors destroyed his body, likewise, it was God himself who raised him.

The answer is in recognizing the figures of speech used.

You've done very well there, O!

So maybe you would take your own advice?
Recognize the figures of speech.
And I would add, understand what they are saying.

The Lord did say He would raise it up and the false accusation was that He said He would destroy the temple. But think about it - what offended those against Him most was never threats of destruction - but His acts above human.
Now I'm not going to say any more about this, friend, so please don't give me some hard headed answer!

Moses was never an equal with The Lord God. He was a servant. A great one, but not more, right? Right. Yet he is the greatest man in the eyes of Israel even today, right? Not even John the Baptist is compared to him, right? Right. So his comparability to The Lord was on purpose but not because he seemed like a god when he wasn't one, was it? Israel would've had to kill him if he claimed to be a god. Please Deal With That.
 
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