ECT II Timothy 2: 15 and Dispensationalism's Rightly Dividing the Word of God.

glorydaz

Well-known member
It's no worse than it was before, I don't think. Only difference is, Trump caused the Left to start dropping their masks and stop pretending. They're starting to show themselves for what some of us knew they were all along and more people see it than before. That's a good thing.

But those of us on TOL saw that in action over the past few years. ;)

PS

Florida dodged a fatal bullet this week with Gillum. Whew, that was close.

That Florida fiasco was something else. You know the Dems are working on their voter fraud schemes everywhere. Maybe we should go to dipping our finger in green dye to show we've voted. :chuckle:
 

turbosixx

New member
II Timothy 2: 15 and Dispensationalism's Rightly Dividing the Word of God.

II Timothy 2:15 says "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Here is the key part: ορθοτομουντα τον λογον της αληθειας

The King James Version translates ορθοτομουν as "rightly dividing."

τον λογον της αληθειας means "the word of truth."

The word dividing is given as the proof of the dispensationalist method of dividing scripture. This is taken as a directive to divide the Bible into many different administrations, or dispensations. And Ii Timothy 2: 15 is also taken by dispensationalists as justification for their dividing and making separate the Jews, those of the physical Bloodline from Abraham, from the Gentiles.

And in their continuation of Old Covenant Israel, which is ethnic or national Israel, as existing alongside the Body of Christ, dispensationalists create by this division two peoples of God and two different programs, which contradicts New Testament scripture. In fact, the New Testament states that all of faith. everyone, regardless of his DNA, are unified together in Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit.

In fact, dispensationalists, following their belief that II Timothy 2: 15 directs them to make divisions in New Testament doctrines, make new divisions that the founders of this theology did not make.

"The Greek word ὀρθοτομέω, orthotomeō, in II Timothy 2: 15, translated “divided”, means to “cut straight”, not just “cut." It also means to “direct aright; to set forth truthfully, without perversion or distortion.” Orthotomeo means to cut it straight, not adding to the word or taking away from it so that the Word of God is changed to fit the doctrines of a Church Theology.

The above is from: Wesley J.Perschbacher. The New Analytical Greek Lexicon. Peabody: Hendrickson, 1990, page 296.

That is my understanding as well. The idea here is accuracy as in cutting straight. There is a Greek word for separating/dividing but it's not used here.

I consider myself a dispensationalist but I see the division at Christ's appearing.
Heb. 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Howdy, brethren and sisteren. First time I've posted since I left. Miss y'all, but do not miss what TOL turned into. If it's changed for the better, let me know...life has settled out a lot in recent months. If not...see y'all in glory!

I feel the guh low ree clawd approaching, musty!!!! Puh rayzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd! Can I hear an "Amen?"
 

Right Divider

Body part
That is my understanding as well. The idea here is accuracy as in cutting straight. There is a Greek word for separating/dividing but it's not used here.

I consider myself a dispensationalist but I see the division at Christ's appearing.
Heb. 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
The US in HEBREWS 1:1 does not include you.

You are NOT "cutting straight".
 

turbosixx

New member
The US in HEBREWS 1:1 does not include you.

Please explain. I believe the us is me. Not directly but through the apostles.

1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.

1 Thess. 4:2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Please explain. I believe the us is me. Not directly but through the apostles.

1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.

1 Thess. 4:2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus.
Now you're just completely all over the road.

The book to the HEBREWS is exactly that.

Why do you then jump over to the epistles of PAUL?

Heb 1:1 KJV God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

The FATHERS refers to the ANCESTORS of the HEBREWS.
The PROPHETS are the prophets of ISRAEL.

It's not hard to understand if you just let the scripture speak for itself, But instead, you try to force the meaning upon the text based on the myths of the modern "church" teachings. This has been your problem all along and you give no signs of giving up on this man-made "story".
 

northwye

New member
Thanks to turbosixx this thread got back on topic,

But Hebrews 1: 1-2 says "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2.Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

Before Christ appeared God spoke to the fathers of Israel through the prophets. and after Christ appeared he speaks to us. Who is us?

If a dispensationalist interprets orthotomeō, in II Timothy 2: 15 as meaning to rightly divide, then that dispensationalist might very well decide that "us" in Hebrews 1: 2 is Old Covenant Israel, which is national and ethnic Israel, and which is also the multitude of Israel, and not the remnant (Romans 11: 1-5).

That dispensationalist is "rightly" dividing or separating Old Covenant Israel from the Church, and from Gentiles, but contrary to Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28.

That would mean that "us" in Hebrews 1: 2 cannot include a Gentile.

However, from New Testament Scripture, such as that by Paul, 'us" would more likely refer to people saved by their faith in Jesus Christ and in his Gospel. It would refer to both Jews and Gentiles of faith.

Galatians 3 is Paul's most explicit statement on salvation by faith, and not by the flesh, or physical bloodline from Abraham.

The Apostle John quotes Jesus Christ as saying in John 3: 3, 6-7 to Nicodemus, a Pharisee, that "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God....That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7.Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
 

musterion

Well-known member
That Florida fiasco was something else. You know the Dems are working on their voter fraud schemes everywhere. Maybe we should go to dipping our finger in green dye to show we've voted. :chuckle:


Dry run for 2020, which will be for all the marbles. They won't take the White House so they GOT to get the Senate, to neutralize Trump. Besides, too many people now know what's what, so they have to seize power by any means necessary while they still can.
 

turbosixx

New member
Now you're just completely all over the road.

The book to the HEBREWS is exactly that.

Why do you then jump over to the epistles of PAUL?

Heb 1:1 KJV God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

The FATHERS refers to the ANCESTORS of the HEBREWS.
The PROPHETS are the prophets of ISRAEL.

It's not hard to understand if you just let the scripture speak for itself, But instead, you try to force the meaning upon the text based on the myths of the modern "church" teachings. This has been your problem all along and you give no signs of giving up on this man-made "story".

I agree it's not hard to understand if we just read and believe what it says. Those are our fathers and ancestors because we are descendants of Abraham and we are the circumcision.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Phil. 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
REACH RAHT OUT AN' TOUCH YER TEEVEE SCREEN, BROTHA JOHN, AND RECEEEEEEEEEVE THE ANNOINTIN! And send me a $50 seed faith gift.

Ima claimin' my mira-KUL today, as I feel the anointin', puh rayer warrior musty!!!!! Give the Laaaaaaaaaaaaawd a clap!!!!!!Puh-rayzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

northwye

New member
"Those are our fathers and ancestors because we are descendants of Abraham and we are the circumcision.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

This is turning Galatians 3 upside down. Paul makes it clear in Galatians 3 that, as he says in Galatians 3: 14, "the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29 say that God decides who is saved by their faith in Jesus Christ and in his Gospel and not by that which is physical, not by the bloodline from Abraham. Yet dispensationalism postulates that the Old Covenant continues to be in effect. such that God now has two different peoples and two different programs, one for ethnic or national Israel and one for the Church.
 

Rosenritter

New member
"Those are our fathers and ancestors because we are descendants of Abraham and we are the circumcision.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

This is turning Galatians 3 upside down. Paul makes it clear in Galatians 3 that, as he says in Galatians 3: 14, "the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29 say that God decides who is saved by their faith in Jesus Christ and in his Gospel and not by that which is physical, not by the bloodline from Abraham. Yet dispensationalism postulates that the Old Covenant continues to be in effect. such that God now has two different peoples and two different programs, one for ethnic or national Israel and one for the Church.

It reminds me of "separate but equal" before the U.S. federal government forced desegregation. "Gotta keep them rightly divided apart from each other" you know. Terrible things might happen if there was one seed of Abraham in Christ.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I agree it's not hard to understand if we just read and believe what it says. Those are our fathers and ancestors because we are descendants of Abraham and we are the circumcision.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Phil. 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—
THOSE are NOT the book to the HEBREWS!

ISRAEL is the grandson of Abraham. Abraham is the father of MANY nations.
 
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