Eagles Wings
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Love this verse, with added emphasis. Thanks.
If it was your faith, it gives occasion to boast!
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beloved57
Well-known member
Many religious folks deny unconditional election based solely upon Gods Sovereign will, to choose whom He may, and do falsely teach that election is based upon God foreseeing who would believe verese who would not believe. Now this totally goes against scripture and election the purpose of God Rom 9:11
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif](For [/FONT]the children being not yet born, [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]neither having done any good or evil, that[/FONT] the purpose of God according to election [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]If they were not yet born, how could they have believed ? Man cannot believe before he exists.[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Not only that, if God did choose a man for salvation because he believed, then men would be chosen based upon some inherent good God seen in them, but didn't see in another He didn't choose . So those who hold fact election conditioned upon faith, are in reality basing election by Grace upon an inherent good within a person, which is totally opposed to Salvation by Grace, not of works, lest man has an occasion to boast ![/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif](For [/FONT]the children being not yet born, [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]neither having done any good or evil, that[/FONT] the purpose of God according to election [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]If they were not yet born, how could they have believed ? Man cannot believe before he exists.[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Not only that, if God did choose a man for salvation because he believed, then men would be chosen based upon some inherent good God seen in them, but didn't see in another He didn't choose . So those who hold fact election conditioned upon faith, are in reality basing election by Grace upon an inherent good within a person, which is totally opposed to Salvation by Grace, not of works, lest man has an occasion to boast ![/FONT]
Nanja
Well-known member
Exactly! Their election wasn't based on what they would or would not do, but solely upon God's Grace for them Rom. 11:5 2 Tim. 1:9 , His Vessels of Mercy which He had afore prepared unto Glory Rom. 9:23, and predetermined that they shall believe on Him. So God's Purpose of Election has nothing to do with a person's actions, because as stated in Rom. 9:11, they hadn't yet done any, as they were not even born yet to do anything !
But the reason a person shall believe is because God had chosen them [Elected] to Salvation.
2 Thes. 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Gal. 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Both of your comments, as well as the thread title, reveal what this really concerns: you are merely accusing others of boasting because they believe what the scripture tells them. The OP also says that others will try to use Greek to explain away the opening post, (as if that is something bad), but then proceeds to explain the Greek meaning of pistis, (lol).
Matthew 9:22 W/H
22 ο δε ιησους στραφεις και ιδων αυτην ειπεν θαρσει θυγατερ η πιστις σου σεσωκεν σε και εσωθη η γυνη απο της ωρας εκεινης
Mark 10:52 W/H
52 και ο ιησους ειπεν αυτω υπαγε η πιστις σου σεσωκεν σε και ευθυς ανεβλεψεν και ηκολουθει αυτω εν τη οδω
Luke 7:50 W/H
50 ειπεν δε προς την γυναικα η πιστις σου σεσωκεν σε πορευου εις ειρηνην
"η πιστις σου σεσωκεν σε" ~ "Your faith-trust-belief has saved-delivered you"
Luke 7:50 KJV
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 7:50 ASV
50 And he said unto the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
The accusation of boasting, for simply believing what the scripture says, is nothing more than an excuse on the part of the accusers who do not wish to believe what the scripture says.
beloved57
Well-known member
Nope, but you are now justifying your false accusations with more accusations.
beloved57
Well-known member
Yep, no false accusation. Let's discuss the Op and you prove false accusation.
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Already done:
And you rejected the Testimony of the Messiah when you rejected the above. And you do so because in your doctrine you do not know the difference between "the works of the Law" and "the works of Elohim" as the Master expounds:
John 6:28-29 ASV
28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
This is the work of Elohim: that you put your faithful trusting belief into the one whom Elohim has sent. That means you must believe and faithfully trust all of his words, the Testimony of the Anointed One found in the Gospel accounts, (and the Apocalypse), which Testimony you have already openly rejected herein above by falsely claiming that by trusting those words I and others are putting our boast in MAN. You are in fact teaching the POLAR OPPOSITE from what the Messiah teaches because of your very own rejection of his words and teachings. The "works of the Law" are the things one can do with the hands, feet, or with the body, but the works of Elohim are done in the heart, mind, and soul. One may sit in silence, while the whole body is at rest and reposed, and yet, at the same time may be doing the works of Elohim. Mortify your "members" which are upon your land, as Paul likewise admonishes you to do: put the deeds of the body to death, put them to "sleep", (in repose, inactive). It is within your own will and power, (in Messiah, by way of his Testimony), to either do so, or to not do so. When you open your mouth to accuse the faithful, who believe the Testimony of the Master, you do worse than those who do evil by way of the body: for what comes forth from your mouth proceeds from your heart, and therefore, as I said, you actually do the polar opposite of what the Master teaches.
beloved57
Well-known member
Why are you scared to discuss the OP ? Explain to me my points made and how made by the OP !
How can you not see that what you ask is what I am already doing?
beloved57
Well-known member
If you are not capable of discussing or not willing to discuss the points made in the OP, why are you even here ? For your own agenda ?
More false accusations even after I just showed you how my posting is related to the OP. If you yourself are not capable of defending your OP then why are *you* even here? Especially when you have openly and blatantly denied the Testimony of the Messiah on the previous page.
I must question whether you truly agree with the OP or if you just agree with the doctrine because it is something you have read and heard about.
Trust/faith is received at regeneration and trust is the result of regeneration. In tandem with regeneration, we are also converted and granted repentance.
This life-giving experience is an unmistakeable one off event that leads to a lifetime of repentance and sanctification.
You have in the past mocked this event called regeneration/being born again from above and have refused to give an account of the occurrence that leads to life happening to you.
Your posts are mostly truth, but the spirit of which you speak is one of deceit and it seems to be of self-delusion.
In the OP you accuse people of boasting. It must be said that you boast in the doctrine of salvation, but give no proof that it has been applied to you.
Trust/faith is received at regeneration and trust is the result of regeneration. In tandem with regeneration, we are also converted and granted repentance.
This life-giving experience is an unmistakeable one off event that leads to a lifetime of repentance and sanctification.
You have in the past mocked this event called regeneration/being born again from above and have refused to give an account of the occurrence that leads to life happening to you.
Your posts are mostly truth, but the spirit of which you speak is one of deceit and it seems to be of self-delusion.
In the OP you accuse people of boasting. It must be said that you boast in the doctrine of salvation, but give no proof that it has been applied to you.
Here is yet another place from the scripture that refutes the OP:
Mark 9:21-24 ASV
21 And he asked his father, How long time is it since this hath come unto him? And he said, From a child.
22 And oft-times it hath cast him both into the fire and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do anything, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 And Jesus said unto him, If thou canst! All things are possible to him that believeth.
24 Straightway the father of the child cried out, and said, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
The Greek is emphatic just as it is rendered here. The man says to the Master, essentially, "If anyone can do anything YOU CAN!", and the response from the Master is as if to say, "YOU MEAN, IF YOU CAN!" for all things are possible to the one who believes, (faith, trust, belief that is acted upon), and the answer from the man reveals that this is indeed what is being said, for he says, "I do believe, please help my unbelief!"
And again:
Acts 2:37-41
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do?
38 And Peter said to them, Repent, and be immersed every one of you into the name of Jesus Christ toward the sending away of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, (the Testimony of the Anointed One because his Testimony is Spirit, John 6:63).
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto Him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation!
41 They then that received his word were immersed: (into the Testimony of the Messiah which is his name), and there were added unto them in that day as it were three thousand souls.
Dear OP, SAVE yourself from the crooked generation which appears to have you trapped in the miry pit of unbelief! :chuckle:
Mark 9:21-24 ASV
21 And he asked his father, How long time is it since this hath come unto him? And he said, From a child.
22 And oft-times it hath cast him both into the fire and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do anything, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 And Jesus said unto him, If thou canst! All things are possible to him that believeth.
24 Straightway the father of the child cried out, and said, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
The Greek is emphatic just as it is rendered here. The man says to the Master, essentially, "If anyone can do anything YOU CAN!", and the response from the Master is as if to say, "YOU MEAN, IF YOU CAN!" for all things are possible to the one who believes, (faith, trust, belief that is acted upon), and the answer from the man reveals that this is indeed what is being said, for he says, "I do believe, please help my unbelief!"
And again:
Acts 2:37-41
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do?
38 And Peter said to them, Repent, and be immersed every one of you into the name of Jesus Christ toward the sending away of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, (the Testimony of the Anointed One because his Testimony is Spirit, John 6:63).
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto Him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation!
41 They then that received his word were immersed: (into the Testimony of the Messiah which is his name), and there were added unto them in that day as it were three thousand souls.
Dear OP, SAVE yourself from the crooked generation which appears to have you trapped in the miry pit of unbelief! :chuckle:
beloved57
Well-known member
Why do you keep posting in this thread and avoid the points in the Op ?
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You poor unbeliever, I guess lying comes with unbelief and breathing out false accusations:
Much of what is in the OP I have been discussing herein. You say that faith cannot be your own faith but the Master tells you plainly that you are incorrect and so do the apostles, including James, who tells you from the Torah that Abraham was justified not only by his works but because of his faithfulness which produced his works. Abraham believed when the Word of the Father came to him in a vision, (Gen 15:1), and that belief was accounted unto him as righteousness, (Gen 15:6), and yet I have quoted the Word to you in this thread and you, the accuser here, openly reject the Word by way of rejecting his Testimony.
beloved57
Well-known member
According to the OP how do i show faith/belief of the Truth comes about ? I showed scripture. Now dont evade the discussion, were discussing what I posted !
Sorry, I do not often spend much time in supposed Christian forums with unbelievers.
If I wanted to debate with atheists I would go to an atheist board.
Have a nice thread.
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