I will not vote for trump

[Traditio]

And you are wrong about God creating, the process is PRO creation as to the physical manchild...the soul is God's implanting and creation and we none of us understand how or when that work begins or ends.

And of all the creatures God created man is born DEAD he must be made to breathe in order to live.

All of this is just philosophically/theologically confused. 1. The human person is a composite of body and soul. That composite comes into existence at the moment of conception. There's no unensouled body at any point during the pregnancy. What comes into existence at the moment of conception is a living, growing animate (and, as such, ensouled) body, namely, of the human kind.

2. If you insist on arguing theology, I'll appeal to favorite texts of mine:

"Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and made thee a prophet unto the nations" (Jeremiah 1:5).

Also:

"For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy" (Luke 1:44).

 

[Totton Linnet]

yes

 

[patrick jane]

I can see how he was set up by the interviewer, obviously the law has to be upheld....he was kind of tricked into that, he recovered well shifting the onus upon the doctors.

It also shows that Trump is not impervious to public opinion

View attachment 23896

 

[Totton Linnet]

All of this is just philosophically/theologically confused. 1. The human person is a composite of body and soul. That composite comes into existence at the moment of conception. There's no unensouled body at any point during the pregnancy. What comes into existence at the moment of conception is a living, growing animate (and, as such, ensouled) body, namely, of the human kind.

2. If you insist on arguing theology, I'll appeal to favorite texts of mine:

"Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and made thee a prophet unto the nations" (Jeremiah 1:5).

Also:

"For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy" (Luke 1:44).

That was Jeremiah and J the B now convince me that God formed Hitler in the womb


...He certainly never sanctified him

 

[kmoney]

yes

I wasn't implying the media never 'sets up' politicians. I'm sure Chris Matthews was hoping to make Trump look bad by it, but I don't think I'd consider it a setup. How was it a setup? He asked if the woman should be punished. It's a fairly straight forward question. A question that Trump should have been able to answer had he ever put much thought into the abortion issue.


I think your support for Trump is just out of stubbornness now. lain:

 

[Angel4Truth]

He asked if the woman should be punished. It's a fairly straight forward question. A question that Trump should have been able to answer had he ever put much thought into the abortion issue.

:thumb:

 

[Traditio]

That was Jeremiah and J the B now convince me that God formed Hitler in the womb


...He certainly never sanctified him

"Or hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour" (Romans 9:21).

 

[Totton Linnet]

I see you have learned predestination, not bad for a Catholic.

God made ME a vessel unto honour, if someone dishonours me they are not doing God's will and the resultant fruit of their dishonouring me will be outside His will also.

Underlying all this I believe God for His protection as I am sure the blessed Virgin did...why not transpose your arguments to her if she had been raped before giving birth to Christ

 

[Town Heretic]

Of COURSE it does...don't be silly. If the rape was against God's will then so is the resultant pregnancy.

I'd say it's contrary to God's will that a man does evil, but that if a thief uses some of the money to buy food for the starving, their health is a good thing, not an evil.

And you are wrong about God creating, the process is PRO creation as to the physical manchild...the soul is God's implanting and creation and we none of us understand how or when that work begins or ends.

I'm not certain what you mean, but it works with my secular argument about an indeterminate time of vesting, though that want of determination leads to the protection of the unborn, as we have no right to end what may be a being of right, but we have the right to impinge upon your or my liberty and do so in all sorts of ways, daily, from what we can or can't ingest to where we can and cannot go, ect.

And of all the creatures God created man is born DEAD he must be made to breathe in order to live.

I'd say we're born transitioning and the breath is a giant step in that transition. Good to see you anyway, differences notwithstanding. :cheers:

 

[Totton Linnet]

I wasn't implying the media never 'sets up' politicians. I'm sure Chris Matthews was hoping to make Trump look bad by it, but I don't think I'd consider it a setup. How was it a setup? He asked if the woman should be punished. It's a fairly straight forward question. A question that Trump should have been able to answer had he ever put much thought into the abortion issue.


I think your support for Trump is just out of stubbornness now. lain:

It was put in the form of a leading question....is the law to be upheld....do you know what I'm glad Trump is not glib, with all the PC answers ready at the push of a button....his considered position that he end on is a good position

 

[Totton Linnet]

That is all I'm gunna say

 

[Angel4Truth]

It was put in the form of a leading question....is the law to be upheld....do you know what I'm glad Trump is not glib, with all the PC answers ready at the push of a button....his considered position that he end on is a good position

Why did he backtrack then, if he really believes a woman should be punished if she gets one? A lot of people on here believe that very thing, they dont back off of it.

 

[Traditio]

I see you have learned predestination, not bad for a Catholic.

I'm taking the passage to say that God is the creator both of the elect and of the non-elect.

Yes. God formed even Hitler in the womb (though who am I to judge whether Hitler is elect or not?).

 

[kmoney]

It was put in the form of a leading question....is the law to be upheld....do you know what I'm glad Trump is not glib, with all the PC answers ready at the push of a button....his considered position that he end on is a good position

I think you are mixing two different incidents. 1) Chris Matthews and the woman/punishment question. 2) An interview where he talked about upholding or changing laws.

 

[Totton Linnet]

I'd say it's contrary to God's will that a man does evil, but that if a thief uses some of the money to buy food for the starving, their health is a good thing, not an evil.

I'm not certain what you mean, but it works with my secular argument about an indeterminate time of vesting, though that want of determination leads to the protection of the unborn, as we have no right to end what may be a being of right, but we have the right to impinge upon your or my liberty and do so in all sorts of ways, daily, from what we can or can't ingest to where we can and cannot go, ect.

I'd say we're born transitioning and the breath is a giant step in that transition. Good to see you anyway, differences notwithstanding. :cheers:

Dodgy argument that, stealing from the rich and doing good works with the proceeds....many a mafia don would understand it.

Society may impinge upon me but not some dirty Arab. I don't believe in the sanctity of human life in every single case and at all odds.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Why did he backtrack then, if he really believes a woman should be punished if she gets one? A lot of people on here believe that very thing, they dont back off of it.

He made a mistake.

He has always had a different approach to abortion to the ultra conservatives although in the main he is opposed to abortion, I understand his position perfectly

 

[Angel4Truth]

He made a mistake.

He has always had a different approach to abortion to the ultra conservatives although in the main he is opposed to abortion, I understand his position perfectly

What approach is that, change your position on the fly if potential voters outcry? Nothing new or different about that, happens all the time.

 

[Totton Linnet]

He has always had caveats and yes that is what all politicians do

 

[Totton Linnet]

In November you are either going to get Trump or Clinton

 

[Town Heretic]

Dodgy argument that, stealing from the rich and doing good works with the proceeds...

As dodgy as eating the Priest's wheat?

.many a mafia don would understand it.

I think that's true. It's how a lot of relatively shady characters prospered in an era when no one particularly looked out for the poor. But if that Don fed a child who would have gone hungry the feeding was a good thing, even if the Don's livelihood wasn't.

Society may impinge upon me but not some dirty Arab.

Isn't that how the Jews saw us once upon a time? There are a lot of really interesting Arabs, by the way. You know who gives Arabs more grief than you do? Persians. Iranians hate it when someone calls them an Arab.

I don't believe in the sanctity of human life in every single case and at all odds.

Then you don't believe in the sanctity of life, which is your right, but we're going to have to differ.