I Support Capital Punishment

[Freak]

So, you would be okay with paper-cutting him once per second until he passed out, then starting over again when he woke up, but not killing him?

Re-phrase your question. Not understanding you.

As I stated, the triune God is quite capable of putting to death people who commit crimes/sins worthy of death. In one day the Holy Trinity put to death tens of thousands of sinful people. If death is merited then He'll take their lives. Life and death belongs to HIM not the government. Governments should punish and seek to bring about redemptive justice.

 

[Mr. 5020]

Re-phrase your question. Not understanding you.

As I stated, the triune God is quite capable of putting to death people who commit crimes/sins worthy of death. In one day the Holy Trinity to put to death tens of thousands of sinful people. If death is merited then He'll take their lives. Life and death belongs to HIM not the government.

In other words, you're ok with extreme inhumane torture, but not death.

 

[Freak]

In other words, you're ok with extreme inhumane torture, but not death.

I never said that. I do not believe there is anything redemptive in torturing people.

 

[Mr. 5020]

I never said that. I do not believe there is anything redemptive in torturing people.

But you did say...

"In this, the New Covenant gives liberty in the area of punishment. The death penalty however is not an option, as the New Covenant does not give the governments of the world an allowance to put to death criminals."

 

[Freak]

But you did say...

Yes, governments have some liberty in doling out punishment. But, as with anything in life, we should attempt to mirror the way Jesus dealt with criminals like the woman in John 4 or the murderer apostle Paul...

I stated clearly:

The New Covenant calls for redemptive justice—what we see Jesus did for the Samaritan woman, the apostle Paul, and others. You restore when there is repentance. When there in no repentance, call for punishment (see Romans 13).

Redemptive justice calls for trying to restore, when possible, like the church in Corinth. Besides, God can put to death, anyone, when needed.

 

[Mr. 5020]

Yes, governments have some liberty in doling out punishment. But, as with anything in life, we should attempt to mirror the way Jesus dealt with criminals like the woman in John 4 or the murderer apostle Paul...

So we should have arrested Jessie's murderer, and then said, "Go, and sin no more." Am I understanding you right?

 

[Freak]

So we should have arrested Jessie's murderer, and then said, "Go, and sin no more." Am I understanding you right?

There are times when governments allow pardons. Each case needs to be dealt with, with redemptive justice in mind.

 

[Mr. 5020]

There are times when governments allow pardons. Each case needs to be dealt with, with redemptive justice in mind.

:BillyBob: is right, :freak:, you are a :Commie:.

 

[Freak]

:BillyBob: is right, :freak:, you are a :Commie:.

Thanks, Mr. 5020 for the short run at discussing this issue. I knew the personal attack would rear it's ugly head.

Why not deal with these objections I raised in my very first post, instead of calling me a commie:

The Old Covenant which called for the governing authorities to utilize the death penalty was temporary. A greater covenant was spoken of that would illuminate us (see Hebrews 7:22) to a better means in dealing with crimes and sins—on a personal & governmental level. The Old Law which called for the death penalty has been annulled “because of its weakness and unprofitableness” (see Hebrews 7:18).

Under the superior New Covenant, God began to enlighten His people of a better means in dealing with sin/crime-the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ which reconciles, restores, redeems, and forgives. The Gospel is more powerful then the Law (see Romans 1:16), for the Law is bondage (see Galatians 4). Governments which consist of individuals should be directed to live (and in providing societal order) according to precepts found in the better covenant which has a better way of dealing with criminals.

Let’s look at how Jesus and New Covenant believers dealt with those guilty of capital crimes:

•The Samaritan Woman in John 4 was guilty of adultery and yet Jesus restored her and did not call for her to report to the governing authorities to be put to death.
•The Apostle Paul was a murderer and yet when Jesus encountered him He did not command Paul to report to the governing authorities to be put to death.
•The Christians in Corinth (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11) who were formerly "sexually immoral," "idolaters," "adulterers," "male prostitutes," and "homosexual offenders"--all of which were capital offences in the Old Testament, were not called upon the apostle Paul to report to the governing authorities to be put to death.

 

[Servo]

God has given the govenment the job of putting murderers to death.
Romans 13:
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

 

[Freak]

God has given the govenment the job of putting murderers to death.

Bzzzzzz. Wrong answer.

God doles out the death penalty whenever He pleases. It's not the governments place.

Romans 13:

Romans 13 doesn't give governments the right to put people to death. It merely says they can, "execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Wrath does not=death penalty.

 

[Mr. 5020]

Thanks, Mr. 5020 for the short run at discussing this issue. I knew the personal attack would rear it's ugly head.

Why not deal with these objections I raised in my very first post, instead of calling me a commie:

Actually, I took the time to ask you several questions before declaring you a commie.

 

[Freak]

Actually, I took the time to ask you several questions before declaring you a commie.

Questions that were already answered in my very first post. :bang:

 

[Mr. 5020]

God doles out the death penalty whenever He pleases. It's not the governments place.
Romans 13 doesn't give governments the right to put people to death. It merely says they can, "execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Wrath does not=death penalty.

Sounds like God appointed the governing authorities to make those decisions, which is probably why God hasn't called you to politics.

 

[Servo]

I already answered the question with my very first post when I stated:

"I firmly believe God directly executes judgment, according to His will and discretion, and death upon men and nations for certain offences. But this is God's prerogative not man's (nor a governments)."

If God wants anyone to die, trust me, He will ensure they die. He's not powerless!

So Romans 13 no longer applies, God will just kill murderers when He is ready. The number of murders and people on death row keeps increasing. Has God become more lenient lately?

When a judge does sentence a murderer to be put to death, is God going to judge the judge for murder?

 

[Mr. 5020]

Questions that were already answered in my very first post. :bang:

For clarification purposes. I wanted to make absolutely sure you were a commie before I called you one.

 

[Freak]

Sounds like God appointed the governing authorities to make those decisions, which is probably why God hasn't called you to politics.

Q: The Christians in Corinth (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11) who were formerly "sexually immoral," "idolaters," "adulterers," "male prostitutes," and "homosexual offenders"--all of which were capital offences in the Old Testament, why were they not called upon the apostle Paul to report to the governing authorities to be put to death.

 

[Servo]

Bzzzzzz. Wrong answer.

God doles out the death penalty whenever He pleases. It's not the governments place.
Romans 13 doesn't give governments the right to put people to death. It merely says they can, "execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Wrath does not=death penalty.

Romans 13:
4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

So what is the sword for? Are they going to tickle him?

 

[Mr. 5020]

Q: The Christians in Corinth (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11) who were formerly "sexually immoral," "idolaters," "adulterers," "male prostitutes," and "homosexual offenders"--all of which were capital offences in the Old Testament, why were they not called upon the apostle Paul to report to the governing authorities to be put to death.

Because that was not the "law of the land." Paul never said to do things that were illegal.

 

[Freak]

So Romans 13 no longer applies,

That's a silly question. Of course Romans 13 applies but I simply stated that wrath does not =death penalty.

God will just kill murderers when He is ready.

. yes, imagine that! He's not afriad to do so!!

The number of murders and people on death row keeps increasing. Has God become more lenient lately?

People die everyday. God takes like all the time, many for crimes/sins that call for death.

When a judge does sentence a murderer to be put to death, is God going to judge the judge for murder?

Again, it's not the government's role to put people to death in this dispensation. God is more then capable!! God will judge the governments for acting outside their role as understood in the Scriptures. God will judge all (see Hebrews 9:27).

Q: The Apostle Paul was a murderer and yet when Jesus encountered him He did not command Paul to report to the governing authorities to be put to death. Why?