ECT I should have initiated my threads here!

[jamie]

Really? So He commended His dead spirit to the Father? :noway:

The human spirit joins with the brain to create a person's mind.

"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved" (1 Thessalonians 5:23)

The spirit is pneuma, soul is psuche from which we get psyche, body is soma.

When the spirit separates from the body the soul is dead.

 

[jamie]

Great theory, where the scriptures you read to reach those conclusions?

"For the fate of humans and the fate of animals are the same:
As one dies, so dies the other; both have the same breath.
There is no advantage for humans over animals,
for both are fleeting.
Both go to the same place,
both come from the dust,
and to dust both return.
Who really knows if the human spirit ascends upward,
and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?" (Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 NET)

 

[patrick jane]

"For the fate of humans and the fate of animals are the same:
As one dies, so dies the other; both have the same breath.
There is no advantage for humans over animals,
for both are fleeting.
Both go to the same place,
both come from the dust,
and to dust both return.
Who really knows if the human spirit ascends upward,
and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?

That's why the Hindus worship monkeys

 

[jamie]

Are you referring to Matthew 27:46?

Yes, Jesus hadn't sinned so he was not worthy of eternal death.

He was restored to life.

 

[glorydaz]

The human spirit joins with the brain to create a person's mind.

"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved" (1 Thessalonians 5:23)

The spirit is pneuma, soul is psuche from which we get psyche, body is soma.

When the spirit separates from the body the soul is dead.

We are spirit soul and body, and we are also considered living souls until our body returns to the dust. The mind, emotions, etc. (is the soul) who we are, and our spirit is the inner man with which we communicate with God. The body is merely the tent in which we dwell.

 

[marhig]

Right. The Father separated himself from Jesus.

Jesus died physically and he died spiritually and was buried.

Three days later he got up and walked out of his tomb.

Hey, tombs are dark and there is not much action.

Outside is better.

Hi Jamie. Jesus didn't die spiritually, just before he died he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my Spirit, Jesus never ever died spiritually, only his flesh died. At the point of death, the Spirit of Jesus went straight to God.
.

 

[marhig]

We are spirit soul and body, and we are also considered living souls until our body returns to the dust. The mind, emotions, etc. (is the soul) who we are, and our spirit is the inner man with which we communicate with God. The body is merely the tent in which we dwell.

I remember thinking about this, I know our Spirit goes to God, but I wondered about the soul, and then I read that God has a soul.

Judges 10

And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the LORD: and his soul was grieved for the misery of Israel.

And also when Rachel died when giving birth to Benjamin, it says in the bible that her soul departed from her.

Why do you believe that our soul dies when our bodies return to the dust? Thanks

 

[oatmeal]

"For the fate of humans and the fate of animals are the same:
As one dies, so dies the other; both have the same breath.
There is no advantage for humans over animals,
for both are fleeting.
Both go to the same place,
both come from the dust,
and to dust both return.
Who really knows if the human spirit ascends upward,
and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?" (Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 NET)

Yes, you could conclude that from those verses.

You pointed out that a believer, is composed of body and soul and spirit. I Thessalonians 5:23

body is body

soul is soul

spirit is spirit

However, all soul is spiritual in nature, that is it cannot be detected by the five senses, you cannot take a liter of soul and examine it in a lab. You see the result of a live soul, ie, life in the body, but soul is not a physical substance, it is spiritual in nature.

Soul is spiritual, but it is not eternal life spirit. God is the Eternal life spirit, He gave to believers of that spirit. I John 4:13. In truth, it is something we can know we have without a shadow of doubt, I John 5:13

Animals have soul, which is spiritual in nature, but it is not eternal life spirit, it is not holy spirit

 

[oatmeal]

There is nothing complicated about our putting off this tent in which we live....by dying physically. Resurrection speaks of the body (which goes back to the dust), and is raised a spiritual body. That is not my "theology", that is God's written word. It's the Bible you're disbelieving and arguing against....not me and my "theology". I'm a bit disappointed in you, Oats. I really thought you were on the brink of believing that Christ died, was buried, and rose from the dead. That's the Gospel, and that's exactly what you are denying with your foolish questions.

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. :think:

Did Jesus die? According to your theology death is not death, but life.

I am not disappointed in me nor is God, for I did Romans 10:9 I confessed with my mouth the lord Jesus and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead.

God raised him from the dead, because if he was not raised from the dead, he would still be dead, lifeless.


II Corinthians 4:14

" Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you."

God raised up the Lord Jesus and it will be God that shall raise up us as well


There is no reason to raise someone from the dead if they are still alive, now is there?


II Corinthians 5:6-8

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


Paul was willing to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.

Does those verses say that once we are absent from the body, we are immediately present with the Lord?

No, if it did, it would contradict I Thessalonians 4:13-18



But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


especially verse 17 the last phrase


"and so shall we ever be with the Lord."


The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught together with them ...


SO, shall we ever be with the Lord



How shall we be present with the Lord, what meets the criteria of "SO shall we ever be with the Lord"

"SO" in that manner, not in any other manner.

When Jesus Christ returns to gather us up, Paul is not there now. Paul is dead, He is not with the Lord, He will not be with the Lord until the dead in Christ rise from the dead.

How much plainer could God make it?

 

[jamie]

We are spirit soul and body, and we are also considered living souls until our body returns to the dust. The mind, emotions, etc. (is the soul) who we are, and our spirit is the inner man with which we communicate with God. The body is merely the tent in which we dwell.

Is the brain a part of the mind? What gives the brain intellect?

"For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?"
(1 Corinthians 2:11)

The human spirit provides human intellect.

However, to know God requires an additional spirit, God's Spirit.

"Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God." (1 Corinthians 2:11-12)

The Spirit who is from God is Christ.

"These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things." (John 14:25-26)

Jesus Christ is our Helper.

Those who don't have Christ's Spirit are not his.

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." (Romans 8:9)

 

[jamie]

Hi Jamie. Jesus didn't die spiritually

Is sin spiritual?

"For we know that the law is spiritual" (Romans 7:14)

We know the law is spiritual, but do you know it?

God's commands are spiritual because God is Spirit.

Since God's commands are spiritual, violations are spiritual.

If Jesus hadn't died spiritually we would still be in our sins.

Physical death counts for nothing, anyone can do it.

"For the fate of humans and the fate of animals are the same:
As one dies, so dies the other; both have the same breath.
There is no advantage for humans over animals,
for both are fleeting.
Both go to the same place,
both come from the dust,
and to dust both return." (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)

Animals do not commit spiritual sin and don't die spiritually.

Humans commit spiritual sin and can die spiritually.

 

[jamie]

Hi Jamie. Jesus didn't die spiritually, just before he died he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my Spirit, Jesus never ever died spiritually, only his flesh died.

"For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven" (Colossians 1:19-20)

Do you not believe angels can sin?

Do you not believe Christ paid the penalty for everyone's sin?

 

[jamie]

However, all soul is spiritual in nature, that is it cannot be detected by the five senses, you cannot take a liter of soul and examine it in a lab. You see the result of a live soul, ie, life in the body, but soul is not a physical substance, it is spiritual in nature.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7 KJV)

Adam didn't have a soul, Adam became a living soul. A soul is a living being.

When Adam stopped breathing he became a dead soul.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being. (Genesis 2:7)

 

[jamie]

However, all soul is spiritual in nature

A soul is by definition a living being.

Lions and tigers are not spiritual in nature.

They don't sin, but they die.

Does their spirit return to God who gave it?

Can their spirit be changed, given a different spirit?

 

[jamie]

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain" (Isaiah 11:6-9)

 

[marhig]

Is sin spiritual?

"For we know that the law is spiritual" (Romans 7:14)

We know the law is spiritual, but do you know it?

God's commands are spiritual because God is Spirit.

Since God's commands are spiritual, violations are spiritual.

If Jesus hadn't died spiritually we would still be in our sins.

Physical death counts for nothing, anyone can do it.

"For the fate of humans and the fate of animals are the same:
As one dies, so dies the other; both have the same breath.
There is no advantage for humans over animals,
for both are fleeting.
Both go to the same place,
both come from the dust,
and to dust both return." (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)

Animals do not commit spiritual sin and don't die spiritually.

Humans commit spiritual sin and can die spiritually.

Firstly Jesus has never sinned, and secondly how can you believe that Jesus died spiritually? He's never ever died spiritually in any whatsoever, why do you think that he has?

 

[marhig]

"For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven" (Colossians 1:19-20)

Do you not believe angels can sin?

Do you not believe Christ paid the penalty for everyone's sin?

What has any of that got to do with Jesus dying spiritually?

 

[jamie]

Firstly Jesus has never sinned, and secondly how can you believe that Jesus died spiritually? He's never ever died spiritually in any whatsoever, why do you think that he has?

Is the law spiritual? Yes or no.

 

[jamie]

What has any of that got to do with Jesus dying spiritually?

Have angels sinned? Yes or no.

 

[marhig]

Is the law spiritual? Yes or no.

Can you just explain to me in what you mean by saying Jesus died spiritually, in what way? Thanks