ECT I should have initiated my threads here!

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jamie

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Can you just explain to me in what you mean by saying Jesus died spiritually, in what way? Thanks

Separation from the Father is spiritual death.

Jesus told a man to follow him. (Luke 9:59)

The man replied, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father."

Jesus said, "Let the dead bury their own dead." (Luke 9:60)

Was Jesus saying to let those who are physically dead bury their dead?

No. Jesus was saying let those who are spiritually dead bury their physical dead.

Does Jesus provide salvation for the spiritually dead? How?
 

jamie

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Some angels have sinned and are spiritually dead to God, but Jesus never sinned and he isn't spiritually dead either!

Did Jesus' provide reconciliation for everyone in heaven and earth?

Paul said he did, do you believe Paul?
 

marhig

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Did Jesus' provide reconciliation for everyone in heaven and earth?

Paul said he did, do you believe Paul?
Jamie I will answer your questions, but can you just explain to me what you mean by Jesus died spiritually? How? In what way? Thanks
 

jamie

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Firstly Jesus has never sinned

Yes, that was the plan.

However, was sin imputed to Jesus?

"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)

What is the penalty for sin? Is it a stubbed toe? Is it a sore arm?

Or is it death?

Is it physical death shared by humans and animals?

Or is it spiritual death shared by humans and angels?
 

jamie

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Jamie I will answer your questions, but can you just explain to me what you mean by Jesus died spiritually? How? In what way? Thanks

I have and I will.

Spiritual death is separation from the Father.

Physical death is temporary, spiritual death is normally permanent.

In Jesus' case spiritual death was for others, not for himself.

He did nothing that was worthy of death.

Because he was actually innocent his life was restored.
 

marhig

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Yes, that was the plan.

However, was sin imputed to Jesus?

"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)

What is the penalty for sin? Is it a stubbed toe? Is it a sore arm?

Or is it death?

Is it physical death shared by humans and animals?

Or is it spiritual death shared by humans and angels?
Sin wasn't imputed into Jesus at all, there was no sin in Jesus and he never sinned, Jesus became sin for us by coming into this sinful flesh, but he didn't ever sin and no sin was in him in any way whatsoever.
 

marhig

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I have and I will.

Spiritual death is separation from the Father.

Physical death is temporary, spiritual death is normally permanent.

In Jesus' case spiritual death was for others, not for himself.

He did nothing that was worthy of death.

Because he was actually innocent his life was restored.
I can honestly say I that I've never ever read that Jesus was spiritually separated from the father, when do you believe that this happened?
 

Nang

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Jesus Christ bore the sins of His people on the cross, and there He suffered the full wrath of God unto physical death, for those sins.

This was a sacrificial and vicarious blood offering on His part, to appease all legal Judgment under the Law.
 

glorydaz

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Did Jesus die? According to your theology death is not death, but life.

I am not disappointed in me nor is God, for I did Romans 10:9 I confessed with my mouth the lord Jesus and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead.

God raised him from the dead, because if he was not raised from the dead, he would still be dead, lifeless.


II Corinthians 4:14

" Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you."

God raised up the Lord Jesus and it will be God that shall raise up us as well


There is no reason to raise someone from the dead if they are still alive, now is there?


II Corinthians 5:6-8

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


Paul was willing to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.

Does those verses say that once we are absent from the body, we are immediately present with the Lord?

No, if it did, it would contradict I Thessalonians 4:13-18



But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


especially verse 17 the last phrase


"and so shall we ever be with the Lord."


The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught together with them ...


SO, shall we ever be with the Lord



How shall we be present with the Lord, what meets the criteria of "SO shall we ever be with the Lord"

"SO" in that manner, not in any other manner.

When Jesus Christ returns to gather us up, Paul is not there now. Paul is dead, He is not with the Lord, He will not be with the Lord until the dead in Christ rise from the dead.

How much plainer could God make it?

God can't make it any plainer, but the natural man (you) is still in the dark.
 

jamie

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Sin wasn't imputed into Jesus at all, there was no sin in Jesus and he never sinned, Jesus became sin for us by coming into this sinful flesh, but he didn't ever sin and no sin was in him in any way whatsoever.

You're not listening. Do you not have ears to hear?

Do you believe sin is spiritual?

If not, I can't help you.
 

marhig

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Jesus Christ bore the sins of His people on the cross, and there He suffered the full wrath of God unto physical death, for those sins.

This was a sacrificial and vicarious blood offering on His part, to appease all legal Judgment under the Law.
Full wrath of God? Which verse says that Jesus suffered the full wrath of God on the cross?

And if you believe that Jesus is God, why would God need to come as s human sacrifice to appease his own wrath?
 

jamie

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Your not explaining properly, where does it say in the bible that sin was imputed into Jesus? Jesus had absolutely no sin in him at all!

"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us" (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Did Jesus bear the sin of others? Or not?

How do you read it?
 

marhig

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"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us" (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Did Jesus bear the sin of others? Or not?

How do you read it?
Jamie, Jesus knew no sin, but he became sin for us by coming to this world and into this sinful flesh to bare witness to the truth and preach the gospel and save as many as he could through believing in him and in the gospel. But he had no sin in him, and he never sinned, that's how he overcame satan and the world, by never ever sinning. And he is our example to follow.

Is that what others here believe? That Jesus had sin in him? He was sinless.
 

marhig

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I did not say Jesus sinned.

Was the Lamb of God not sacrificed?

Do Passover lambs sin?
Jesus was a living sacrifice, he sacrificed his whole life for God.

And if you believe that Jesus never sinned, then Jesus never had sin imputed unto him either, there was absolutely no sin in Jesus whatsoever.

Do passover lambs sin??? What???
 

glorydaz

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Is the brain a part of the mind? What gives the brain intellect?

"For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?"
(1 Corinthians 2:11)

The human spirit provides human intellect.

However, to know God requires an additional spirit, God's Spirit.

"Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God." (1 Corinthians 2:11-12)

The Spirit who is from God is Christ.

"These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things." (John 14:25-26)

Jesus Christ is our Helper.

Those who don't have Christ's Spirit are not his.

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." (Romans 8:9)

You're missing the point of this verse. "The things of man" is referring to the inner workings of man, which the intellect of the natural man cannot comprehend on it's own. Our carnal mind, will, and emotions comprise the soul of man. The carnal man is described as being "soulish". It's only when our spirit has been awakened that we are able to understand the total man....that we even have a spirit with which we can communicate with God.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.​

Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.​
 

glorydaz

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"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7 KJV)

Adam didn't have a soul, Adam became a living soul. A soul is a living being.

When Adam stopped breathing he became a dead soul.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being. (Genesis 2:7)

Yes, any being that has the breath of life is a living soul. And we see that here.

Acts 27:37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.​

However, we also have a soul. "your soul"

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

This verse speaks of the the WORD OF GOD being a sharp sword...dividing the soul and spirit discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart. The "soulish/carnal" man being differentiated from the spiritual man....the old man and the new man with an awakened spirit.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.​

The word of God doesn't divide us from life...we are still a living soul, but we are no longer carnal (soulish) walking according to the flesh. Romans 12:2
 
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