I asked a specific question about the status of polio in the US. You answered with a reference to a doctor who claimed that polio was never that big of a deal. Pray tell how does that address the question I actually asked?
How many people actually caught measles from the vaccination?
- Thread starter ebenz47037
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I asked a specific question about the status of polio in the US. You answered with a reference to a doctor who claimed that polio was never that big of a deal. Pray tell how does that address the question I actually asked?
They both give you measles. The vaccine, being attenuated, gives you a milder form of it. The stronger the form the more long lasting and effective the "immunity". So, the question that occurs to me is, why should we run the risk of experiencing the potential adverse effects of measles in order to receive a lesser "immunity" when we might not and, statistically, probably would not get it in the first place?
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What was your question?
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Zeke
Well-known member
A reminder from one who would know.
There will be in the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude and producing dictators without tears so to speak.
Producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies so the people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.
Aldous Huxley was right in his prediction about the brainwashing from reading some of the comments.
There will be in the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude and producing dictators without tears so to speak.
Producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies so the people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.
Aldous Huxley was right in his prediction about the brainwashing from reading some of the comments.
elohiym
Well-known member
I asked you about the odds on the other thread. Still waiting for an answer and the proof. Now you want to punt the question to me? :chuckle:
The risk of febrile seizures for the vaccine; it's 1:3000. The relative risk, according to one study, is 2.83. It's possible those claimed risks are based on under-reported figures, but let's use them for the discussion. Now you provide the risk of febrile seizures from wild-type measles, then we'll compare and consider other factors.
elohiym
Well-known member
For those who don't understand what a relative risk of 2.83 means:
The relative risk of febrile seizures from measles vaccination was found to be 2.83, which means a child is almost three times as likely to have a febrile seizure than if they refused the vaccination. The risk is repeated with a second vaccination and any future boosters.
The relative risk of febrile seizures from measles vaccination was found to be 2.83, which means a child is almost three times as likely to have a febrile seizure than if they refused the vaccination. The risk is repeated with a second vaccination and any future boosters.
elohiym
Well-known member
elohiym said:
You are afraid of measles killing you despite the extremely low mortality rate for the infection (you want to "prevent someone from killing you"). Therefore, you inject yourself with measles virus that is supposed to give you a mild and "harmless" infection, but you know it can cause the same complications as the measles virus you fear (you "shoot yourself in the head"). Instead of doing that, you could prevent and mitigate measles infection through diet, increased standard of living and quarantine during outbreaks (wear body armor).
Regardless, if the scientific consensus is wild-type measles virus infection confers lifetime immunity and vaccine-type measles virus does not, it follows that wild-type measles virus is more effective at providing immunity. That was all I meant. Personally, I wouldn't intentionally expose my children to either viral infection.
elohiym
Well-known member
elohiym said:
Right. I had to spend several pages trying to convince poster Cabinetmaker what you believe is true, yet he still doesn't believe it. Poster Resodko, the self-proclaimed scientist, called me retard for suggesting the idea. Thank you for admitting it.
elohiym said:
Neither the complications of attenuated measles virus infection nor wild measles virus infection are a certainty. The complication of both infections are real and in rare cases can cause severe complications and death.
You're mistaken. "[A]ttenuated and pathogenic MV show highly similar in vivo tropism in the lungs."
Is that what the chart shows? Not remotely.
It also occurs in persons with vaccination-strain measles infection.
Not true. "The presence of measles virus in the brain tissue was confirmed by reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction. The nucleotide sequence in the nucleoprotein and fusion gene regions was identical to that of the Moraten and Schwarz vaccine strains; the fusion gene differed from known genotype A wild-type viruses."
Ignores children are being infected with vaccine-strain measles and doesn't account for complications from vaccination.
Needs to be updated. See brain tissue comment above.
But it does change, and the more people you infect the greater the chances of that happening. The OP is an example of that happening.
Are you talking about thread drift or pathogenic mutation? :chuckle:
Daedalean's_Sun
New member
At present, there are no statistics on febrile seizures from measles infection (at least as far as I have been able to find), though we do know that Febrile seizure is caused by fever. We can make some valid inferences from this.
"Onset of measles ranges from 7-14 days (average, 10-12 days) after exposure to the virus. The first sign of measles is usually a high fever (often >104o F [40o C])"
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/966220-overview
According to the MAYO clinic:
"Usually the fevers that trigger febrile seizures are caused by a viral infection."
Regarding measles and fever:
"After an incubation period of 8–12 days, measles begins with increasing fever (to 39°C-40.5°C) and cough, coryza, and conjunctivitis"
Notice the wording here. It is not measles might cause fever, or measles could cause fever. Fever is a prodrome of measles; It is characteristic of the disease.
Compare this to the odds of fever in from vaccine
"...a temperature greater than 37.7 C (1%-6%) have been among the most frequently reported side effects among adults and children receiving vaccine (8-12)"
According to the CDC:
"Vaccines prevent many febrile seizures.
Getting a child vaccinated as soon as recommended prevents febrile seizures by protecting young children against measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, influenza, pneumococcal infections and other diseases that can cause fever and febrile seizures."
elohiym
Well-known member
I hope it doesn't come to that if I refuse to let a physician intentionally infect my child with live viruses. Perhaps enough people oppose pseudo-science-based medical tyranny to protect medical freedom in the United States. It seems the more pro-any-vax fanatics push their agenda, the more people join the ranks of the vaccine critics. The recent unjustified outcry against non-vaccinated children and subsequent push for no exemptions may backfire on them.
elohiym
Well-known member
elohiym said:
That's concerning, is it not? One can typically find a comparison table when shopping for products, yet with something as important as measles they never thought to produce a table that compares the risks between natural measles infection and vaccine-induced measles infection.
The World Health Organization's clinical case definition for measles does not stipulate a fever greater than 40c, just a fever. Early measles studies in the United States showed fever developed in 85% of vaccine recipients and 20% of those had fever of 39c, and one study showed the vaccine strain caused fever greater than or equal to 39c in 50% of the vaccine recipients.
The vaccine-strain measles virus causes a measles infection that causes a fever in the majority of recipients, and 1:3000 of them have a febrile seizure. One study found: Increased risk of febrile seizure has also been observed in children aged between 12 to 23 months (relative incidence (RI) 4.09; 95% CI 3.1 to 5.33) and children aged 12 to 35 months (RI 5.68; 95% CI 2.31 to 13.97) within six to 11 days after exposure to MMR vaccine.
You are giving a person a measles infection when you vaccinate and see the characteristic fever following the majority of vaccinations.
"The extensive studies in American children have shown that approximately 85% of susceptibles receiving Enders vaccine develop about six days later a febrile reaction lasting for several days; however, in only 20% of the susceptible children does the temperature reach 39°C."
Still, the majority develop a fever to some degree.
If the known relative risk of febrile seizure from giving someone a vaccine-strain measles infection is 2.83, it's asinine and dangerous to suggest vaccination in order to prevent an unknown risk from a natural measles infection.
elohiym
Well-known member
"The highest risk of association with aseptic meningitis was observed within the third week after immunisation with Urabe-containing MMR (risk ratio (RR) 14.28; 95% confidence interval (CI) from 7.93 to 25.71) and within the third (RR 22.5; 95% CI 11.8 to 42.9) or fifth (RR 15.6; 95% CI 10.3 to 24.2) weeks after immunisation with the vaccine prepared with the Leningrad-Zagreb strain."
Source.
Those relative risk numbers are high and very concerning. What is the risk of aseptic meningitis with a natural measles infection?
Source.
Those relative risk numbers are high and very concerning. What is the risk of aseptic meningitis with a natural measles infection?
Would that it were true but I fear the time worn tool of gradualism will once again find the frog boiled. I would point to this thread as yet another indicator.
elohiym
Well-known member
I went to mine when I was six.
elohiym
Well-known member
I received the vaccines in childhood. The link is to a thread I started to discuss measles parties.
Common Complications
Common measles complications include ear infections and diarrhea.
Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
Diarrhea is reported in less than one out of 10 people with measles.
Severe Complications
Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.
As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html
Common measles complications include ear infections and diarrhea.
Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
Diarrhea is reported in less than one out of 10 people with measles.
Severe Complications
Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.
As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html