ECT How is Paul's message different?

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Faith is never alone, it is always in something. I doubt James would want faith in our own accomplishment, he just didn't want it lifeless.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
whitestone said:
lol, everyone does do they not,the keyboard is it seems a reflection...

Which two in the things me and you discussed the Grecians(Grecian Jews)and James in A15,A21 or the 12 and the BOC?
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I like to start off simple. Before conversion, Jew and Gentile. When did they become one body?
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Faith is never alone, it is always in something. I doubt James would want faith in our own accomplishment, he just didn't want it lifeless.
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The scriptures though IP all you have to do is click the back arrow on the quotes and read the most important commentary you will ever find, in fact according to it if you see Acts as a part of Luke 1:1-4 KJV you will see that what is recoded in Acts about James is what they truly believed...
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
whitestone said:
Me too in fact in post# 1360 you ask me to rephrase where I began...In post# 1564,pg.105 you brought up the Grecian Jews http://biblehub.com/greek/1675.htm and then after this you said Jew and Gentile(follow the back arrow on our quoted post)...
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I guess I'm confused about where all this started. If you don't mind, could you go back to your original point and question. I will try and go back and refresh myself how we got here.

Thanks
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
I guess I'm confused about where all this started. If you don't mind, could you go back to your original point and question. I will try and go back and refresh myself how we got here.

Thanks
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So you held a conversation with me as if you see me as an neophyte and I posted half and then you did afterwards in response? If so that is the true definition of one who already had their mind made up and saw/sees me as an neophyte,so no if you want to know do your own homework...
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
whitestone said:
Me too in fact in post# 1360 you ask me to rephrase where I began...In post# 1564,pg.105 you brought up the Grecian Jews http://biblehub.com/greek/1675.htm and then after this you said Jew and Gentile(follow the back arrow on our quoted post)...
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Ok, I went back to the beginning. I think you are assuming that the 12 taught the observance of circumcision and the law. I see no evidence of that. If they had, it would be easy to point to a book, chapter and verse. Instead people speculate.

Did they say stop? I would say no. They were in the heart of Jewish country and teaching the new covenant which circumcision is not a part of. Understanding this takes time. We can see the people Paul preached to had many problems that he had to right to them and straighten out.

I'm of the opinion that the question didn't arise there because of where they were. Men then went out and taught others they needed to be circumcised. James says they were given no instruction to teach such a thing.

I love the council in Acts 15. I believe it shows how we are to determine truth. They looked at the things the Spirit was doing and made a decision based on that. When Peter converted Cornelius, he did not circumcise them and the Spirit didn't compel him to.

So I come back to my question. When did the Jew and the Gentile become one body?
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
whitestone said:
So you held a conversation with me as if you see me as an neophyte and I posted half and then you did afterwards in response? If so that is the true definition of one who already had their mind made up and saw/sees me as an neophyte,so no if you want to know do your own homework...
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I don't believe for a minute your new. You've been indoctrinated into something which so far appears to be mad.
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
Ok, I went back to the beginning. I think you are assuming that the 12 taught the observance of circumcision and the law. I see no evidence of that. If they had, it would be easy to point to a book, chapter and verse. Instead people speculate.

Did they say stop? I would say no. They were in the heart of Jewish country and teaching the new covenant which circumcision is not a part of. Understanding this takes time. We can see the people Paul preached to had many problems that he had to right to them and straighten out.

I'm of the opinion that the question didn't arise there because of where they were. Men then went out and taught others they needed to be circumcised. James says they were given no instruction to teach such a thing.

I love the council in Acts 15. I believe it shows how we are to determine truth. They looked at the things the Spirit was doing and made a decision based on that. When Peter converted Cornelius, he did not circumcise them and the Spirit didn't compel him to.

So I come back to my question. When did the Jew and the Gentile become one body?
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Then your imputing your own beliefs into acts 9,15 and 21 because what they actually discussed was if the gentiles should be circumcised and follow the law(old) or not...
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
whitestone said:
Then your imputing your own beliefs into acts 9,15 and 21 because what they actually discussed was if the gentiles should be circumcised and follow the law(old) or not...
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If I want to read scripture and see an apostle teaching/observing circumcision, it wouldn't be one of the 12. If I want to read about an apostle observing a vow, it wouldn't be one of the 12.

The 12 didn't teach it but did they fully understand it wasn't to be carried over. Probably not till they considered it at council. Where did Paul and Barnabas go for the final answer?
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
If I want to read scripture and see an apostle teaching/observing circumcision, it wouldn't be one of the 12. If I want to read about an apostle observing a vow, it wouldn't be one of the 12.

The 12 didn't teach it but did they fully understand it wasn't to be carried over. Probably not till they considered it at council. Where did Paul and Barnabas go for the final answer?
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You mean Acts 15:2 KJV where they went to take it right?
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
Yes sir. I see the apostles as a whole as the authority and I believe that is what scripture supports.)
Eph. 2:20 Eph. 3:5[/QUOTE


Then in Acts 15:6 KJV if they considered of this matter(that Paul and Barnabas was arguing) then who was teaching it first the ones who were considering it or the ones who had no small disputation about it?
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turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
whitestone said:
turbosixx said:
Yes sir. I see the apostles as a whole as the authority and I believe that is what scripture supports.)
Eph. 2:20 Eph. 3:5
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Then in Acts 15:6 KJV if they considered of this matter(that Paul and Barnabas was arguing) then who was teaching it first the ones who were considering it or the ones who had no small disputation about it?
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I see your point but I don't think they were teaching "no circumcision" but reacting to "be circumcised". I suggest the 12, as far as scripture reveals, only ran into converting Gentiles once before and circumcision was not an issue. The old law and traditions were hard to shake, especially in Jerusalem. Heb. 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

I don't believe observing things that came before is sin or against the gospel for those who are infants in Christ but just shows immaturity, Rom. 14. I think one should quit those things as they move on to maturity.

When did the old law come to an end?
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
I see your point but I don't think they were teaching "no circumcision" but reacting to "be circumcised". I suggest the 12, as far as scripture reveals, only ran into converting Gentiles once before and circumcision was not an issue. The old law and traditions were hard to shake, especially in Jerusalem. Heb. 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

I don't believe observing things that came before is sin or against the gospel for those who are infants in Christ but just shows immaturity, Rom. 14. I think one should quit those things as they move on to maturity.

When did the old law come to an end?
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You have had it planted into your subliminal mind so deeply that the "new covenant" is what they are speaking about that you cannot see that in Acts 15 and 21 it never comes up. The issue is always if they should follow the law and be circumcised, follow their customs or not ect. What year is the Acts 21 time-line ad 57-59? Why aren't they bringing up the new covenant and explaining it in the spots you are,whats missing?
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
Guilty :)

I believe what the bible says and I do my best to understand what it's telling me.
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I believe what the Bible says too, but it says more than I thought it did for many years.

There were always some things I had to just "put up on a shelf" because they did not agree with some of what Paul had written in his letters. It didn't concern me that much, because I figured certain things had changed after Jesus' work on the cross, and it was a "mystery" that would be revealed when the Lord returned. Then I ran into MAD, and found myself exactly where you are...not wanting to believe I'd been missing something for almost forty years that had been right there for me to see all along. I argued and fought against it until I had to admit, they had those answers I thought I could "keep up on that shelf". There were many aha moments, and there still are. I don't think there will ever be a day when another nugget is not revealed from God's Holy Scripture.
 
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