ECT How is Paul's message different?

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Ridiculous?

Based on what?

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there or that it isn't real, which has been the main thrust of my arguments throughout the thread.

I invite you to read through the conversation I've had with Turbosixx. I'll be happy to answer any direct question you want to ask that you don't feel I've sufficiently answered in that discussion.

I've read most of it, it's not convincing.
Who doesn't need Christ? Jews and Gentiles both do. Paul did just the same as his gentile friends.
For what? To share in Him, in His Spirit, in His love.

How do we get Him? By grace through faith. Did the disciples get Him by faith and Grace ? Of course! There is no other way! There is one way, One life, One truth, One Spirit, One love.

 

[Cross Reference]

I've read most of it, it's not convincing.
Who doesn't need Christ? Jews and Gentiles both do. Paul did just the same as his gentile friends.
For what? To share in Him, in His Spirit, in His love.

How do we get Him? By grace through faith. Did the disciples get Him by faith and Grace ? Of course! There is no other way! There is one way, One life, One truth, One Spirit, One love.

Amen!

 

[Cross Reference]

Read the thread and stop being lazy.

If my vocabulary is too much for you and you want me to dumb it down, forget it.

Which post?

 

[lifeisgood]

I've read most of it, it's not convincing.
Who doesn't need Christ? Jews and Gentiles both do. Paul did just the same as his gentile friends.
For what? To share in Him, in His Spirit, in His love.

How do we get Him? By grace through faith. Did the disciples get Him by faith and Grace ? Of course! There is no other way! There is one way, One life, One truth, One Spirit, One love.

Amen!

In the Old Testament hidden in the Tabernacle and all the utensils and ceremonies.
In the New Testament revealed in Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

All salvation is in Christ.

Why can there not be different groups in Christ, for a different purpose, with a different eternal inheritance?

I don't have a problem with the entire universe being filled with those who are in Christ. The earth, The City, The heavens.

 

[lifeisgood]

All salvation is in Christ.

Agreed.
Hidden in the OT.
Revealed in the NT.

Why can there not be different groups in Christ, for a different purpose, with a different eternal inheritance?

At least for me, all the different groups, for a different purpose, in Christ will not receive a different eternal inheritance, I believe that there is only one inheritance --- eternally with God be it on earth, be it on a city, be it on the heavens; nevertheless, the one inheritance is to be with God eternally. At least that's the way I see it.

I don't have a problem with the entire universe being filled with those who are in Christ. The earth, The City, The heavens.

Neither do I.

 

[Cross Reference]

Agreed.
Hidden in the OT.
Revealed in the NT.



At least for me, all the different groups, for a different purpose, in Christ will not receive a different eternal inheritance, I believe that there is only one inheritance --- eternally with God be it on earth, be it on a city, be it on the heavens; nevertheless, the one inheritance is to be with God eternally. At least that's the way I see it.



Neither do I.

Amen! Ditto! How we leave this Earth in Christ will determine our heavenly destinations. Lets not forget that many will only "sit under their own fig tree" here on Earth.

 

[False Prophet]

Sophist!

 

[Nick M]

All salvation is in Christ.

Why can there not be different groups in Christ, for a different purpose, with a different eternal inheritance?

I don't have a problem with the entire universe being filled with those who are in Christ. The earth, The City, The heavens.

That only applies to tongues and the laying of hands. lain:

 

[musterion]

Amen! Ditto! How we leave this Earth in Christ will determine our heavenly destinations. Lets not forget that many will only "sit under their own fig tree" here on Earth.

Those in Christ via Paul's Gospel have already been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into His Kingdom, because where He is, they are. They can be no more removed from it than He can.

What you got to say about that.

 

[Right Divider]

Those in Christ via Paul's Gospel have already been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into His Kingdom, because where He is, they are. They can be no more removed from it than He can.

What you got to say about that.

I say that that question deserves a question mark! :think:

 

[jgarden]

How is Paul's message different?

1. As a former Pharisee who was actively persecuting the early Christians, Paul was probably viewed as an outsider and subject some distrust by the members of the Jerusalem Church - although this is never mentioned explicitly in the NT.

2. The early Church considered Christianity as a branch of Judaism and required that Gentiles become circumcised in accordance with Abraham's Covenant with God as a prerequisite to conversion.

3. Paul perceived that his mission was to be the Apostle to the Gentiles which brought him into repeated conflict with the Judaizers (circumcision group) from the Jerusalem Church and Peter whom he considered to be the Apostle to the Jews (Galatians 2).

4. In an ironic twist of fate, Peter,the Apostle to the Jews, and not Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, would be considered as the first Pope by the Roman Catholic Church.

5. Circumcision had negative implications in Greek culture which placed an emphasis on the beauty of the human body. Gentiles Christians who were not circumcised were referred to as "Godfearers."

6. Paul wrote extensively to the Churches that he established during his missionary journeys articulating a theology based on justification by faith.

7. As the most prolific Christian writer during the 1stC, Christians have been influenced more by Pauline theology more than any other individual.

8. The book attributed to "James" articulates a theology which places a greater emphasis on "works" and has been derisively referred to as an "Epistle of Straw" by Martin Luther. There are only a few direct references to Christ in James leading some theologians to hypothesize that the original version was a non-Christian work stressing the need for moral behavior which was later adapted for a Christian audience.

9. The destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70AD with as many as 1.1 million Jewish casualties combined with the enslavement/dispersal of the remainder, brought an end to the Jerusalem Church. This prompted the focus of Christianity to shift from the Christian Jews in Palestine to the Gentile Christians and Rome.

 

[Cross Reference]

Those in Christ via Paul's Gospel have already been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into His Kingdom, because where He is, they are. They can be no more removed from it than He can.

What you got to say about that.

What makes you believe the Disciples of Jesus Christ were left wanting? "All things work together for good to them that love God” _____ to those who remain true to seeking to know Him by Christ Jesus.

 

[Clete]

I've read most of it, it's not convincing.

To you.

It's not convincing to you.

Who doesn't need Christ? Jews and Gentiles both do.

Agreed!

Paul did just the same as his gentile friends.
For what? To share in Him, in His Spirit, in His love.

I do not believe that you've "read most of it."

If you have, why simply repeat points that have already been responded to? Why not respond to the response that failed to convince you?

How do we get Him? By grace through faith.

Exactly.

Did the disciples get Him by faith and Grace ? Of course! There is no other way! There is one way, One life, One truth, One Spirit, One love.

Again, I think you fibbed when you claim to have read most of it. If you read it at all you failed to comprehend any of it. This has already been gone over. Why not make an attempt to continue the discussion rather than repeat it? I mean, no one is sitting there watching you and no one is going to loose any sleep over it if you decide that you don't want to read the exchange that has already taken place. Who is it that you're trying to convince here, me?

I enjoy this topic very much. It's difficult and therefore rewarding. It isn't the mindless fluff that most people who do this for a hobby are used to dealing with. You have to actually think and you have to spend a great deal of effort trying to remain objective. All of which I think is rather fun. So, in other words, I want to discuss this stuff but I don't want to rehash the whole thread. If you want to discuss it then great, spend the time it takes to read and absorb the discussion up to this point and ask me some substantive questions and we'll have a great time. If you don't want to do that then that's fine to, just say so.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Right Divider]

How is Paul's message different?

1. As a former Pharisee who was actively persecuting the early Christians, Paul was probably viewed as an outsider and subject some distrust by the members of the Jerusalem Church - although this is never mentioned explicitly in the NT.

Act 9:26-27 KJV And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. (27) But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
​

 

[Clete]

Which post?

www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4549994

It took me 30 seconds to find that post, not even that!

 

[Cross Reference]

www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4549994

It took me 30 seconds to find that post, not even that!

Nothing in your post comes against the "IF" in Paul's opening remarks; introduction. NOTHING! Now, you read it without your commentaries as you believe I haven't done. If you possess insight, you will throw yours away and write your own.

"IF" you remain Grounded and settled". Why the need for any exegesis to explain the Preposition "IF", Huh?

OMT, why are picking on 2 Peter to support you? In this, I haven't even considered any remarks by Peter. They both are big boys and can stand alone on what I believe they both agree on. I.e., "IF" being the requirement..

 

[Clete]

Nothing in your post comes against the "IF" in Paul's opening remarks; introduction. NOTHING!

Yeah, sure nothing if you disregard the context of the whole letter!

Now, you read it without your commentaries as you believe I haven't done. If you possess insight, you will throw yours away and write your own.

Please don't go insane on me! Just respond to the argument or just bow out and shut up!

"IF" you remain Grounded and settled". Why the need for any exegesis to explain the Preposition "IF", Huh?

There isn't any need for it. All you have to do to understand what Paul is talking about is to read the letter he wrote, not just one sentence of it.

OMT, why are picking on 2 Peter to support you? In this, I haven't even considered any remarks by Peter. They both are big boys and can stand alone on what I believe they both agree on. I.e., "IF" being the requirement..

I'm not picking on 2 Peter, I simply stated that you are attempting to make Paul say the same thing as Peter says in II Peter 2:20-22.

They aren't even discussing the same topic as the context of both letters clearly demonstrates!

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Cross Reference]

Yeah, sure nothing if you disregard the context of the whole letter!

OK. You explain the context.

Please don't go insane on me! Just respond to the argument or just bow out and shut up!

I am on it. You need to catch up!

There isn't any need for it. All you have to do to understand what Paul is talking about is to read the letter he wrote, not just one sentence of it.

Like I said, you need to catch up. I well understand the whole thing and his remarks, admonitions, instructions and otherwise 'gospel' is applicable across the board.

I'm not picking on 2 Peter, I simply stated that you are attempting to make Paul say the same thing as Peter says in II Peter 2:20-22.

I am attempting nothing of the sort and told you so.

They aren't even discussing the same topic as the context of both letters clearly demonstrates!

Why not consider you don't know what you are talking about?

Resting
Clete

Yeah, resting. That's it! Time to wake up!!

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

To you.

It's not convincing to you.


Agreed!


I do not believe that you've "read most of it."

If you have, why simply repeat points that have already been responded to? Why not respond to the response that failed to convince you?


Exactly.


Again, I think you fibbed when you claim to have read most of it. If you read it at all you failed to comprehend any of it. This has already been gone over. Why not make an attempt to continue the discussion rather than repeat it? I mean, no one is sitting there watching you and no one is going to loose any sleep over it if you decide that you don't want to read the exchange that has already taken place. Who is it that you're trying to convince here, me?

I enjoy this topic very much. It's difficult and therefore rewarding. It isn't the mindless fluff that most people who do this for a hobby are used to dealing with. You have to actually think and you have to spend a great deal of effort trying to remain objective. All of which I think is rather fun. So, in other words, I want to discuss this stuff but I don't want to rehash the whole thread. If you want to discuss it then great, spend the time it takes to read and absorb the discussion up to this point and ask me some substantive questions and we'll have a great time. If you don't want to do that then that's fine to, just say so.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Like I said I rest most of it and quite honestly more than I care to already.

There is no argument no scripture that goes against the oneness found in Christ Jew, Greek, Gentile it doesn't matter.

There is only one way to take part in Him. Grace!

If you don't care to respond, I'm fine with that. I've said what my conscious and His word has convicted me of.

"eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope that belongs to your call--one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all..." Epeshians 4:3-6