ECT How D'ism Curtails Trust in the Bible

Interplanner

New member
The public defense of the Christian message is in a very odd situation because of Dispensationalism: while the weakest and most distant arguments are supposed to be believed, the most forceful and obvious demonstration of the truth of the Bible is held in suspicion by a clunking 'theology'.

Yesterday, the radio program Science, Scripture and Salvation tried to tackle the problem of why the modern person has difficulty trusting the Bible. Topics or instances such as the deluge, the exodus, the feedings, the long day of Joshua, the healings, etc, were all used as well as could be expected. Sometimes the sources called upon (DeYoung, Morris) made the mistake of saying 'the Bible is its own best authority' without unpacking that expression meaningfully. Sometimes they sounded like blind faith was good.

Not once do these people (I'm referring to having heard these speakers for decades) mention the Destruction of Jerusalem. This event is foreseen in Mk 13 etc, with quite a bit of additional material in Luke that is not in Mk, Mt or Jn. It was described in detail and connected to Daniel 9's 490 years by Christ and the apostles some 30 years before it took place, with astounding impact on the land of Israel, and with detail recorded by Roman and Jewish writers. It is one of the best documented events of the ancient world.

Why is it not in the usual Christian material that is supposed to be showing the reasons to believe Scripture? Because of a spastic belief system that started 2 centuries back which flits in and out of time frames and contexts and operates a system where God is doing two completely uncoordinated things/programs with 2 unconnected types of people. It is called Dispensationalism. Or, when you are dealing with material about the DofJ, it is called Futurism; the point being that destruction is future (to us).

It has had industrial strength support through an innovative publishing phenomenon in which one writer's views about texts were printed on the same page as the Biblical text and taking up more space than the text on some pages: the Bible with commentary or notes. Ie, Scofield.

Next it got popular strength when a real clutz of a theologian named Lindsay said that the 40 years between 1948 and 1988 were what such passages were about, and a rapture was coming and other circus acts.

The utterly awkward juxtapositioning of "2 peoples / 2 programs" has made a shambles of Biblical authority and strength. It is obvious that in any given discussion of the role of Israel, 2P2P is to be protected even if the clarity and authority of the Bible is miserable afterwards.
 

musterion

Well-known member
 

Interplanner

New member
Did you ever tell us what seminary or theological school you went to?


Most influenced by the following writers:
Dr. F. Schaeffer.
J. Packer
C. S. Lewis
R. Brinsmead
G. Goldsworthy
F. F. Bruce
O. Cullmann
G. Paxton
B. Waltke

My master's degree is from Regent College Vancouver. No connection at all to the Christian college on the east coast.



It's funny how often the Israel advertisement is shown with my essays!
 

Danoh

New member
In what?

Isn't it obvious, bro?

In obssessing over Acts 2 Dispy sensationslism as being - in his store bought "wisdom of men" - what Mid Acts Dispensationalism is :chuckle:

The guy has yet to get one point right about Mid-Acts.

Not even one point...
 

Danoh

New member
Sorry, IP, but Preterist notions of 70 AD are no answer to why people reject Christ and or Scripture.

That is just your store bought "wisdom of men" doing what should be your thinking...for you.

Try the Scripture...

The fact of the matter is that Scripture does NOT need the Preterist's Ever Endless Josephus Based Book of the Month Club...

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

See that?

Josephus not needed.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Problem - even when He Himself was THEE walking, talking, miracle performing Living BOOK on this Earth?

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

All you and yours are doing o Foolish Galatian, is emphasizing your sensationalist Preterist "by sight" version of Lindsey.

No thanks. Keep your "by sight...social gospel.. intro to Jesus..."
 

Interplanner

New member
Sorry, IP, but Preterist notions of 70 AD are no answer to why people reject Christ and or Scripture.

That is just your store bought "wisdom of men" doing what should be your thinking...for you.

Try the Scripture...

The fact of the matter is that Scripture does NOT need the Preterist's Ever Endless Josephus Based Book of the Month Club...

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

See that?

Josephus not needed.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Problem - even when He Himself was THEE walking, talking, miracle performing Living BOOK on this Earth?

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

All you and yours are doing o Foolish Galatian, is emphasizing your sensationalist Preterist "by sight" version of Lindsey.

No thanks. Keep your "by sight...social gospel.. intro to Jesus..."


That is a very stupid response, and jealous, I would say. Holford saved England a generation of skepticism, and you might notice: the Huxley gang did not touch the DofJ, did they? Instead they hit geology, where they would be safe from acts of God. You are missing all points, you are missing how weak the 'experts' sounded yesterday, you are off target about the role of Josephus, and you're pretty bad on the vital, direct, practical, current meaning of the text at had Mt 24A at that time and setting.
 

Danoh

New member
That is a very stupid response, and jealous, I would say. Holford saved England a generation of skepticism, and you might notice: the Huxley gang did not touch the DofJ, did they? Instead they hit geology, where they would be safe from acts of God. You are missing all points, you are missing how weak the 'experts' sounded yesterday, you are off target about the role of Josephus, and you're pretty bad on the vital, direct, practical, current meaning of the text at had Mt 24A at that time and setting.

Jealous, ay :rotfl:

You do realize we are all strangers to one another on here; right?

That not only is taking personal offense an often fool's gold of an emotion, but even more so where complete strangers on "a forum" are concerned.

Good one on your part there, though...

:chuckle:
 

Interplanner

New member
Jealous, ay :rotfl:

You do realize we are all strangers to one another on here; right?

That not only is taking personal offense an often fool's gold of an emotion, but even more so where complete strangers on "a forum" are concerned.

Good one on your part there, though...

:chuckle:



jealous that Holford saved a generation while Lindsay was part of the (philosophically) modern one that is sinking. Just pay attention or leave the forum.
 

Danoh

New member
jealous that Holford saved a generation while Lindsay was part of the (philosophically) modern one that is sinking. Just pay attention or leave the forum.

You forget I am the one who translates -rightly each time - not only your often seeming mumbo jumbo to others, but theirs to you :chuckle:

You also forget, you and I have been down this Holford road of yours before.

You are a books based walk by sighter.

Plain and simple.

I am Cessationist - 100% walk by faith in the rightly divided Word.

Not hope, not wonder, not assert.

I have all I need in Isaiah 8:20 and 2 Tim. 3:16-17.

Do yourself a favor and burn Romans 14:23 into the mentality of your soul.

If you need a fire towards that; just burn your endless books about :chuckle:
 

Interplanner

New member
You forget I am the one who translates -rightly each time - not only your often seeming mumbo jumbo to others, but theirs to you :chuckle:

You also forget, you and I have been down this Holford road of yours before.

You are a books based walk by sighter.

Plain and simple.

I am Cessationist - 100% walk by faith in the rightly divided Word.

Not hope, not wonder, not assert.

I have all I need in Isaiah 8:20 and 2 Tim. 3:16-17.

Do yourself a favor and burn Romans 14:23 into the mentality of your soul.

If you need a fire towards that; just burn your endless books about :chuckle:


you are simply not credible about any of the above. You are free to work on it.
 
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