Honoring Old Love vs Medical Tyranny

[1PeaceMaker]

Maybe Donna would have appreciated her husband not making her the topic of several news articles either.

I think she'd gladly be in the news if it saved her husband from the vultures.

 

[Rusha]

I think she'd gladly be in the news if it saved her husband from the vultures.

You mean the type of vultures who made this story a focus point by initiating a discussion about it on a discussion board?

 

[Sitamun]

So you didn't read the story of Ham. The point you ignored is found also in Matt 7:12, in case you were wondering. I don't believe Donna would appreciate you using her mental weakness against her husband in this fashion.

How in the world have I ignored that. I mean I wouldn't want to be taken advantage of if I wasn't in a lucid state. I'm not using anything against him that he himself has not provided. I have not called him guilty nor have I said he is innocent. What I have said is that this is very complicated, and hinges on details we do not possess. If you see that as an attack on him, that is your problem, not mine.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

You mean the type of vultures who made this story a focus point by initiating a discussion about it on a discussion board?

The kind of vultures that pick his bones after he's convicted of raping someone who never thought of their love as rape and was never harmed. How did he ever make her a victim? What's the harm you imagine was done to her, giving her the label of a victim in your minds?

In my mind, she's a victim of her daughter's heartless warehousing of her in a lonely place, and dividing her from her husband. And now, if she is righteous, in her grave sleep she must be grieved to see him abused in her name.

I'm sure she'd allow her body to be autopsied to exonerate her husband, if that's what it took. And that's saying a lot in my book. So I'm sure the attempts to defend her husband on this thread are not out of place.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

How in the world have I ignored that. I mean I wouldn't want to be taken advantage of if I wasn't in a lucid state.

And what test would you have administered to you regularly to ensure your husband is properly qualified to continue being your lover?

I'm not using anything against him that he himself has not provided.

Are you using anything against him? Are you not here to defend him and other righteous old lovers who are maybe on the way out themselves?

I have not called him guilty nor have I said he is innocent.

Don't you think without evidence there is a duty to not surmise evil of him? Maybe... innocent until proven guilty?

What I have said is that this is very complicated, and hinges on details we do not possess. If you see that as an attack on him, that is your problem, not mine.

I see Rusha's words as an attack on him, and your words defend hers. :idunno:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

How would Dunshee's actions be any different than Ham's?

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Indeed. I just posted the job requirements of what is to be expected from an in-home healthcare worker.

Also, I have actually performed the job. I never left it to the grown children of the woman I worked for to perform tasks that were clearly part of MY job duties.

Those jobs can be performed by able bodied adult children. And there are services such as hospice.

 

[Sitamun]

Those jobs can be performed by able bodied adult children. And there are services such as hospice.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? We were discussing one SPECIFIC incident, wherein, the HUSBAND was the primary caregiver, and as such was HIS responsibility to ensure that his wife was properly dressed for the day. Yes, many people can fulfill the role, but it can be a very demanding job. Perhaps the daughters knew that they could not handle such a role and thus looked for a facility to do what they could not.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? We were discussing one SPECIFIC incident, wherein, the HUSBAND was the primary caregiver, and as such was HIS responsibility to ensure that his wife was properly dressed for the day. Yes, many people can fulfill the role, but it can be a very demanding job. Perhaps the daughters knew that they could not handle such a role and thus looked for a facility to do what they could not.

They shamed the husband to gain control of their mother, pseudo-legally, then. It would be just like Ham finding Noah drunk and exposing the incident to the known world.

 

[Sitamun]

They shamed the husband to gain control of their mother, pseudo-legally, then. It would be just like Ham finding Noah drunk and exposing the incident to the known world.

So are you saying that the daughters should have allowed this man to be the sole caretaker of their mother, even though he failed to perform basic and essential caretaking neccessities, just to make sure nothing interfered with their love making regardless of her mental capacity at the time?

You are really going out of your way to paint her daughters as ruthless harpies, their sole reasoning is was to "break up the marriage bed" that the thought of them putting their mothers safety and well being first NEVER occurred to you? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you have never known or taken care of someone with dementia. I am done with this conversation. It is clear that you are not interested in an actual discussion on any of this.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

So are you saying that the daughters should have allowed this man to be the sole caretaker of their mother, even though he failed to perform basic and essential caretaking neccessities, just to make sure nothing interfered with their love making regardless of her mental capacity at the time?

How did you get that?

 

[1PeaceMaker]

That's not quite the reaction Noah's other sons had, they politely covered for their father, instead. Took care of him when he couldn't. It's a type of temporary senility - to be drunk.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

You are really going out of your way to paint her daughters as ruthless harpies

They (Dunshee's actions, mainly) were instrumental in the exposure of their parents to separation, scorn, and criminal proceedings, and you go out of your way to paint them as good and loyal.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you have never known or taken care of someone with dementia.

I have also cared for the elderly. As a teen working in a home I learned the value of respecting their autonomy, even when their minds were not clear, as long as no harm would come to them with their choice.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I am done with this conversation. It is clear that you are not interested in an actual discussion on any of this.

Why didn't you just stick with the topic at hand? We don't have to discuss the particular case in the OP - but rather the rights of the elderly extending into their final days.

 

[elohiym]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you have never known or taken care of someone with dementia. I am done with this conversation.

When I met 1Peacemaker, she was volunteering twenty hours a week working at a nursing home.

As for me, I worked in a hospital with geriatric patients on my hospital rounds as a medic in the military.

It is clear that you are not interested in an actual discussion on any of this.

That's the impression you gave from they time you entered the conversation.

 

[Simon Baker]

When I met 1Peacemaker, she was volunteering twenty hours a week working at a nursing home.

As for me, I worked in a hospital with geriatric patients on my hospital rounds as a medic in the military.



That's the impression you gave from they time you entered the conversation.

Amen. It takes special people to care for the sick and disabled. My mother moved her parents in her home (Grandpa & Grandma) for their last 20 + years. She took on the role of 'family' caregiver for her brothers and sisters as well as many other family and friends.

Loving, caring nurses, caregivers and doctors are Saints. I see many in my family that offer little assistance and now realize how much my Mom has done. I am not sure of the OP exactly, just wanted to add this. I understand not everyone can do this or have the option and opportunity. God Blesses those who do !

 

[1PeaceMaker]

So are you saying that the daughters should have allowed this man to be the sole caretaker of their mother, even though he failed to perform basic and essential caretaking neccessities, just to make sure nothing interfered with their love making regardless of her mental capacity at the time?

Two things I didn't point out last time....

1. I'm not saying they should have been sole caretakers. There were at least 4 children to help between them and an unknown number of grandchildren. She was 78, so those grandchildren would easily be in their late teens or even older.

My great-aunt whom I cared for at night solely, for months, had only one daughter (with no living children) who was a cancer survivor and Chrone's disease sufferer; yet she cared for her mother and used relatives like me (17 years at the time) to help her and fill in so she could keep her mother home until she finally died.

2. Claiming I wanted her to be able to stay home "just to make sure nothing interfered with their love making" is really .... let's say .... inaccurate. My 84 year old aunt was a widow for 20 years but her home and her church life meant so much to her that putting her in a home would have broken her heart. She got me into crocheting lap blankets for old people... I started that way and going to sing to them on weekends. So she saw how her friends were treated at the homes and wanted to live in her familiar surroundings. I learned first-hand what living at home means to someone who can't even take herself to the bathroom anymore. It means much more than you've implied.

 

[resodko]

... No means no and if a person does not posses the wherewithal to understand consent, that is an automatic no.

hold on a sec – why is the default “no”?

seems to me that if that’s the case, a married man having sex with his inebriated wife (absent any consideration of dementia) is also guilty of rape

 

[CabinetMaker]

hold on a sec – why is the default “no”?

seems to me that if that’s the case, a married man having sex with his inebriated wife (absent any consideration of dementia) is also guilty of rape

Could be, could be.