ECT Holiness, a gift of God or a commandment?

[Cross Reference]

If a gift why the admonishment from Peter to be so?:

"But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." 1 Peter 1:15-16 (KJV)

. . . . especially since no one is righteous nor ever can be? Rom. 3:10

Correct or no?

 

[Squeaky]

A GOOD MAN IS IN THE SPIRIT

Matt 19:16-17
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Rom 3:9-12
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one."
John 3:3-7
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Matt 6:19-24
19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;
20 "but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 "The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light.
23 "But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
Matt 12:33
33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.
Rom 1:3-6
3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name,
6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
Rom 8:5-8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9-14
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors-- not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Rom 8:16-17
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs-- heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
Acts 11:22-24
22 Then news of these things came to the ears of the church in Jerusalem, and they sent out Barnabas to go as far as Antioch.
23 When he came and had seen the grace of God, he was glad, and encouraged them all that with purpose of heart they should continue with the Lord.
24 For he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord.
(NKJ)
xxxx At face value no one is good but God.. When they asked Jesus He said "Why do you call Me good? He knew they were judging Him at face value. He wanted them to question so He could explain the difference between being in the flesh and being in the Spirit. Jesus knew He was in the Spirit but He also knew they were not. To get in the Spirit they would have to bring every thought in their minds to the obedience of the new testament, and crucify their flesh(emotions and feelings). Those who walk according to the flesh are listening to their emotions and feelings. Those who are walking according to the Spirit are listening to the verses.


Matt 12:35-37
35 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
(NKJ)

 

[Cross Reference]

From the OT where there was no indwelling of the Holy Spirit, nothing but the freewill of man and the commands of God intended by Him and for His reasons, meant to be obeyed __ with man benefiting stemming from his obedience:

"Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 20:7 (KJV)

Called to be Holy. Written to Christians ___Why?:

Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one’s deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile, knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

[Therefore,] Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; for All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever. And this word is the good news that was preached to you. 1 Peter 1:13-25 ESV

[emphasis mine]

 

[Squeaky]

I think it is a command to walk after the Holy Spirit. Although we are not Holy the Holy Spirit is.

 

[Cross Reference]

I think it is a command to walk after the Holy Spirit. Although we are not Holy the Holy Spirit is.

The command is to be Holy.

 

[God's Truth]

The blood of Jesus sanctifies us (Hebrews 10:29); Jesus sanctifies us by the truth (John 17:17); Jesus sanctifies (Hebrews 2:11); We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus (Hebrews 10:10).

We are sanctified through the work of the Spirit TO BE OBEDIENT.

1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

We are sanctified through the work of the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus.

We purify ourselves by believing in the truth, and by obeying the truth. See 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and 1 Peter 1:22.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart

 

[Squeaky]

The command is to be Holy.

I said
when there is nothing that can condemn you. I would say that is pretty close.

Rom 8:1-2

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
(NKJ)

 

[Cross Reference]

I said
when there is nothing that can condemn you. I would say that is pretty close.

You would and do say a lot that condemns you.

Close gets no cigar. The command is, be Holy.

 

[Squeaky]

You would and do say a lot that condemns you.

Close gets no cigar. The command is, be Holy.

I said
I know the command. I also know that we cant escape being sinners.

I Jn 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
(NKJ)

 

[Cross Reference]

I said
I know the command. I also know that we cant escape being sinners.

I Jn 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
(NKJ)

Then you are no Christian and you make God to be a liar.. Vs 10 is referring to the consequences of Adam's transgression.

You would have Vs 8 to read "If we say we don't sin . . . ." to arrive at a point in your understanding that it 'permissible' to sin; an excuse to sin.

 

[nikolai_42]

If a gift why the admonishment from Peter to be so?:

"But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." 1 Peter 1:15-16 (KJV)

. . . . especially since no one is righteous nor ever can be? Rom. 3:10

Correct or no?

Holiness is far more a gift than anything else. It is the fruit of the life of God in an individual.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Romans 6:22

 

[Cross Reference]

Holiness is far more a gift than anything else. It is the fruit of the life of God in an individual.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Romans 6:22

Operative phrase here: "being made free" By what or who? God, by my faithfulness in pursuing Him to know Him per John 17:3. Holiness being the reciprocal.

 

[nikolai_42]

Operative phrase here: "being made free" By what or who? God, by my faithfulness in pursuing Him to know Him per John 17:3. Holiness being the reciprocal.

If I tell you to go clean the car and you take it to a car wash, you say you've cleaned the car. But the fact is, you only brought the car to the wash (at my behest).

EDIT : Consider also that the pure heart is the cleansed heart. Having those windows cleaned allows you to see through them properly. But unless you know first of all that they are dirty and what you should be seeing, you won't even have the inclination to let the light through.

Thinking about working out your salvation and that only the pure in heart will see God (being intimately tied with holiness per Hebrews 12:14), this knowledge of God, this salvation, this holiness is all part of a "package" (don't like the word, but best I have....). You can't isolate one from the other - thus the connection between holiness and salvation per Romans 6:22.

In other words, sanctification is far more closely tied with justification (and salvation, generally) than it seems to me you want to make it. You can't have one without the other and unless you are first justified, you can't be sanctified. Them HE justified those HE also sanctified. All these commands to purify one's self, be holy, don't sin etc... are indeed commands, but the end result they command is only a given because of what God has done in the believer.

So the one who has the Spirit of God recognizes that such commands are largely instructions in being led by the Spirit of God. Understanding those leadings by clarifying what is at work. Not telling the individual to (themselves) "do this". Otherwise, John 7:17 is telling us to obey blindly first and ask questions later. If you don't know if the doctrine is of God (first) then what are you obeying? The point is that the Spirit of God must be the informer first and then in the working out of what is worked in we grow in knowledge and understanding.

 

[Cross Reference]

If I tell you to go clean the car and you take it to a car wash, you say you've cleaned the car. But the fact is, you only brought the car to the wash (at my behest).

EDIT : Consider also that the pure heart is the cleansed heart. Having those windows cleaned allows you to see through them properly. But unless you know first of all that they are dirty and what you should be seeing, you won't even have the inclination to let the light through.

Thinking about working out your salvation and that only the pure in heart will see God (being intimately tied with holiness per Hebrews 12:14), this knowledge of God, this salvation, this holiness is all part of a "package" (don't like the word, but best I have....). You can't isolate one from the other - thus the connection between holiness and salvation per Romans 6:22.

In other words, sanctification is far more closely tied with justification (and salvation, generally) than it seems to me you want to make it. You can't have one without the other and unless you are first justified, you can't be sanctified. Them HE justified those HE also sanctified. All these commands to purify one's self, be holy, don't sin etc... are indeed commands, but the end result they command is only a given because of what God has done in the believer.

So the one who has the Spirit of God recognizes that such commands are largely instructions in being led by the Spirit of God. Understanding those leadings by clarifying what is at work. Not telling the individual to (themselves) "do this". Otherwise, John 7:17 is telling us to obey blindly first and ask questions later. If you don't know if the doctrine is of God (first) then what are you obeying? The point is that the Spirit of God must be the informer first and then in the working out of what is worked in we grow in knowledge and understanding.

Why are you arguing with me? What have I said you find fault with?

 

[nikolai_42]

Why are you arguing with me? What have I said you find fault with?

Your response wasn't entirely clear to me. So I was clarifying my thought with respect to what I saw :

Operative phrase here: "being made free" By what or who? God, by my faithfulness in pursuing Him to know Him per John 17:3. Holiness being the reciprocal.

When you say "by" one's faithfulness in pursuing God to know Him - is holiness being made a reward here? At least in my first reading, it sounded like God is rewarding faithfulness with the gift of holiness. I see it as far more connected to God's initial work than that. But maybe I misread you....(?)

 

[Cross Reference]

Your response wasn't entirely clear to me. So I was clarifying my thought with respect to what I saw :

When you say "by" one's faithfulness in pursuing God to know Him - is holiness being made a reward here?

Does not the pursuit of God to know Him have such a progressive reward in return? Wait! I believe said that already.

At least in my first reading, it sounded like God is rewarding faithfulness with the gift of holiness. I see it as far more connected to God's initial work than that. But maybe I misread you....(?)

It is not a gift. It is a command that is rewarded. <sigh, phew>

 

[nikolai_42]

Your response wasn't entirely clear to me. So I was clarifying my thought with respect to what I saw :





Does not the pursuit of God to know Him have such a progressive reward in return? Wait! I believe said that already.



It is not a gift. It is a command that is rewarded. <sigh, phew>

But is the command not rooted in the initial command to "believe" in Christ rather than a separate reward for a certain level or amount of faithfulness?

 

[Word based mystic]

being Holy as He is holy is a command. Thus a possibility and an expectation.

and as such we are equipped for that possibility.

Like putting on the armor which the armor is Christ.
breastplate of righteousness. His righteousness.

Isn't walking in the Spirit also being Holy?

you can't walk in carnality and flesh if you are being led/walking in the Spirit.

 

[Cross Reference]

But is the command not rooted in the initial command to "believe" in Christ rather than a separate reward for a certain level or amount of faithfulness?

<groan> forget I said anything. I need a vacation from this whirlwind of nonsense.

 

[Word based mystic]

I kind of see it as an innate action if we are (one) with Him.

john 17:11 I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

i may be wrong on the details on this thought.
But that is the way i have comprehended it.

any thoughts am i off.