Are there still any Christians that think you shouldn't judge?
Here comes the judge.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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cattyfan
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I'm all for judging in the appropriate fashion. pass the gavel....
Lovejoy
Active member
Yikes! The connontations of that word have changed so dramatically. Frankly, judging does not get you very far, since we have no authority to back it. Christ will still enforce as He sees fit. I give accountability like no ones business, but where does that get me with those not of the Body? I like proverbs, correct a fool and make and enemy, correct a wise person and they will be wiser.
Anyway, I am not much for vitriol, but if I can help someone by correction, so be it. But if it is from bitterness in my heart, or generates bitterness, I am only hurt.
I guess I don't stand as judge, but will use discernment to decide if I need to act as one. I will follow up later with actual scriptural referrences. Got to get back to the books.
Anyway, I am not much for vitriol, but if I can help someone by correction, so be it. But if it is from bitterness in my heart, or generates bitterness, I am only hurt.
I guess I don't stand as judge, but will use discernment to decide if I need to act as one. I will follow up later with actual scriptural referrences. Got to get back to the books.
Unless a Christian is a hypocrite, he has a duty to judge.
How can a Christian accomplish anything if he cannot judge which acts are beneficial and which acts are wicked and destructive to him and others. How can he choose who will mentor and encourage his growth in his relationship with the Lord if he cannot judge which people are honest and wise, and which people are likely to lead others astray?
Those who cannot make good judgements cannot lead others.
I am powerless to assist someone to better himself if I am unable to judge that which is wrong in his life. And no non-judgemental nodding affirmative crying towel can assist me if I stray and need to be rebuked, no matter how "loving" they believe their craven behavior to be.
There is an inherent hypocrisyl in pretending that one does not judge. All cognizant individuals make judgements and comparisons. Some just decline to act upon them, and consider themselves to be more spiritual for their cowardace.
How can a Christian accomplish anything if he cannot judge which acts are beneficial and which acts are wicked and destructive to him and others. How can he choose who will mentor and encourage his growth in his relationship with the Lord if he cannot judge which people are honest and wise, and which people are likely to lead others astray?
Those who cannot make good judgements cannot lead others.
I am powerless to assist someone to better himself if I am unable to judge that which is wrong in his life. And no non-judgemental nodding affirmative crying towel can assist me if I stray and need to be rebuked, no matter how "loving" they believe their craven behavior to be.
There is an inherent hypocrisyl in pretending that one does not judge. All cognizant individuals make judgements and comparisons. Some just decline to act upon them, and consider themselves to be more spiritual for their cowardace.
Wow.... great post!
Re: Here comes the judge.
The Doctrine only states that we should first attain a level of Righteousness and Purity before we start heeping Judgment upon moral degenerates. It does not say that we should never judge, but only that we resolve our own issues first.
Of course, if your Doctrines encourage you to languish forever in your sinfulness, then you will never arrive at that point where you have the Moral Discernment to Judge. So much for being Protestant. But if you have taken the time and trouble to Morally Streamline your own life, then of course you would have risen to that Level of Wisdom and Know How that could help others get their raggedy affairs in order.
The Doctrine only states that we should first attain a level of Righteousness and Purity before we start heeping Judgment upon moral degenerates. It does not say that we should never judge, but only that we resolve our own issues first.
Of course, if your Doctrines encourage you to languish forever in your sinfulness, then you will never arrive at that point where you have the Moral Discernment to Judge. So much for being Protestant. But if you have taken the time and trouble to Morally Streamline your own life, then of course you would have risen to that Level of Wisdom and Know How that could help others get their raggedy affairs in order.
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Where's my gavel?....ah, yes. Another diatribe unsupported by fact from Leo Volont. He's improving, though. Paul's name wasn't even mentioned.
OK, now where's cry?--I wanna hear the "Jews are responsible for everything that's wrong in the world" angle.
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Re: Re: Here comes the judge.
Where's my gavel?....ah, yes. Another diatribe unsupported by fact from Leo Volont. He's improving, though. Paul's name wasn't even mentioned.
OK, now where's cry?--I wanna hear the "Jews are responsible for everything that's wrong in the world" angle.
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Lovejoy
Active member
You are right, but you are talking about discernment. Judgement (in the spiritual sense) is the right to bestow condemnation or salvation. Christ is not going to stand before people and split hairs, He is going to let them in or send them away, forever. We cannot decide that.
Discernment also allows us to decide when it is appropriate to act on correction, or offer assistance. I know a young Christian woman who came to Christ after being convicted by the loving behavior of an older women. She took care of her after the young women made herself terribly ill with drugs. No condemnation, no hellfire. Just love. She used discernment.
Last, discernment tells us when to turn the eye on ourselves. When are we out of hand (even with the condemnation thing).
By no means do I imply that you are wrong. I agree with you, for the most part. We just have to remember that heaven and hell are not ours to take or give. We do have a right and responsibility to help people on the way, with correction or praise, though. We also have to be smart and loving in how we apply them. Christ is clear that people will hate us, and He is also clear that we are not to give people reason to hate us, if you get my meaning.
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You always have something to complain about. You are complaining that you find nothing to complain about.
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You always have something to complain about. You are complaining that you find nothing to complain about.
This thread is in regard to judgements in general.
The kind of judgements that Christians have been fooled into thinking they shouldn't make.
Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? - 1Corinthians 6:2
Cyrus of Persia
New member
This passage has been awfully misused. It talks about some conflict over matters that are usually solved in courts. So Paul is pointing out: are they not able to solve such problems among themselves, so they need to go and mock themselves in secular courts.
You cannot base any saying: "You have this sin and you have that sin so you go to hell" into this passage. Maybe some other passage, but not this one.
Poly
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No, you've got it wrong there. It should read "You have this sin and you have that sin and since you have not accepted Christ who is the sacrifice to cover those sins once and for all, then you will go to hell." You make it sound as if when one says he judges he is meaning that he holds the authority to send someone to hell. The decision has already been made by God. We're simply relaying the message. You cannot know a persons status with God without first judging whether or not they have accepted Christ. If we care about people we should warn them that God is the one who has already made up His mind about their destination if they do not believe in Him.
John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
the Sibbie
New member
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Leo, just out of curiosity, is there anyone from this forum that you think is worthy to judge your actions if you stumble?
Cyrus of Persia
New member
Nah, it was not the point. I didnt even bothered to think is this sentence correct, or not. The point what i wanted to make is that you cannot make such judgements based on this passage.
Chalk up another one for LIMITED ATONEMENT from their god who is nearly a complete failure....
Romans 14:
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
John 7:24
-judge righteous judgment.
An example you ask???
Who do YOU see on the LEFT???
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Nowhere are there PEOPLE listed as DEPARTING TO THE FLAMES yet men in THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS...do several things with these verses....
# 1, they OVERlook that it represents WORKS BASED salvation...a ridiculous notion...giving another person a CUP OF WATER does not logically equate to ETERNAL SALVATION....(though if you believed it was this easy I would not argue with you)
# 2, they CONTINUALLY will JUDGE THEMSELVES as righteous in these endevours and CONDEMN others to FIRE...
This type of judgment is BLIND PHARISITICAL JUDGMENT....
Yet we KNOW what SIN IS and WHO HAS IT eh???
AAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL
Christians (like Poly) think that somehow THEY RID THEMSELVES of SIN by their ACT(ing) and that OTHERS SINS are retained. They don't blink an eyelash to LIMIT THE WORK OF GOD IN CHRIST....
Now that is truly p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c.
See how the JUDGment works?
enjoy!
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Lovejoy
Active member
First of all, that verse of Corinthians of specifically in regards to brothers within the church. I will agree with that, and double. My brothers get away with nothing around me, and expect the same in return. As to the world, we are not promised any authority over it until after Jesus comes back.
Once again, I am not disagreeing with you. I have met (nominal) christians who used the "we don't judge" thing to protect their lusts for things of the world (even things as stupid as tarot cards and astrology). Disciplice we must have, accountability we need, but arrogant presumption of righteousness is condemning. We have nothing that those of the world don't have, except through Jesus. It is by Grace that we are saved, and that is a mercy. If we had to stand on our actions, we would be as doomed as the rest. Nothing we can do will raise us above that. There are those of the world who are more generous, more kind, and more forgiving. All atributes of Christ. All they lack is Him. If we get them to accept Him, then the Holy Spirit and human accountability will take care of the rest.
Where does judgement (as in the authority to make a binding decision, as the Greek of the word implies) come in?
Once again, I am not disagreeing with you. I have met (nominal) christians who used the "we don't judge" thing to protect their lusts for things of the world (even things as stupid as tarot cards and astrology). Disciplice we must have, accountability we need, but arrogant presumption of righteousness is condemning. We have nothing that those of the world don't have, except through Jesus. It is by Grace that we are saved, and that is a mercy. If we had to stand on our actions, we would be as doomed as the rest. Nothing we can do will raise us above that. There are those of the world who are more generous, more kind, and more forgiving. All atributes of Christ. All they lack is Him. If we get them to accept Him, then the Holy Spirit and human accountability will take care of the rest.
Where does judgement (as in the authority to make a binding decision, as the Greek of the word implies) come in?
