ECT Healing

[Livelystone]

A vast number of Gods people are perishing, not for sin, which Andy does not say, but for lack of knowledge.

Fanny Crosby never met Smith Wigglesworth....nor was healing at all taught, nor is it yet taught like it ought to be.

Teaching healing only works when either nothing else is taught, or everything else being taught is being taught correctly....... some thing that has not happened since the last of the apostles left the church

God is the one who does the healing but people asking for a miracle who have hearts full of false doctrines are not in a favorable position for witnessing God doing a miracle.

BTW, no one is given a gift of healing that allows them to heal others! Those who received a gift of healing in the Bible needed a gift of healing......... a major difference that is lost on many of the churches of today

 

[Livelystone]

When we say sickness is caused by sin we mean the sin of Adam...

Not necessarily. When a Christian falls back into sin they fall back into a state of death where they loose what keeps them from more sin. (why sin is the sting of death)

Contrary to what most churches (and the contemporary Christian band "Mercy Me") teach the Cross did not make us flawless because sin as a principality AKA a life giving force still lives in Christians after they have been to the Cross defines sin as a noun designed to bring forth a verb in it's own image.

Without God's protection keeping Christians from sin they are guaranteed to continue to sin

After all.......David was a much better warrior than any of us but knew without the Lord for His shepherd He would be overtaken by evil

 

[revpete]

A vast number of Gods people are perishing, not for sin, which Andy does not say, but for lack of knowledge.

Fanny Crosby never met Smith Wigglesworth....nor was healing at all taught, nor is it yet taught like it ought to be.

Did Jesus or the apostles teach healing or simple practice it? Healing confirms the preached word. It's a gift which cannot be taught; it is received and then practiced. Freely receive, freely give.

Pete

 

[Totton Linnet]

They preached the good news, healing, deliverance, provision, fellowship with God.

To be saved means to be made every whit whole

 

[revpete]

Healing

But we are dealing with man receiving, where there is an active role to play. Grace is God's sovereignty regarding the offer, but the covenant is God's sovereignty regarding the answer.




According to foreknowledge, not predetermination. There is no partiality with God.



You need to take your eyes off people, and focus solely on what the word says about healing.



We cannot know why people are sick, and cannot pass judgement. We are to edify, not condemn. However, I have made a decision to elevate God's word above everything I see and hear.
If the word says that Jesus took our infirmities and healed our diseases, I'm going to elevate that above your unbelief and humanistic sympathies.

Yes, we are dealing with man receiving but who is it that makes him able to receive? No one can come to Me except The Father who sent Me draw them.

God does indeed have foreknowledge of all things because He orders all things after the council of His own will. Jesus clearly teaches that all that The Father has given Him (past tense) will come to Him and He will raise them up on the last day. This clearly teaches the doctrine of the elect.

I am not the one with his eyes on people. It was you who stated that there are believers who are not living or have lived as they should/could because of their failure to grasp healing or claim it. All I did was site well known Christians who lived with sickness and disability.

You say we should not judge and yet you judge me by saying that I have unbelief and humanistic sympathies. I think you mean that you will elevate your interpretation of God's Word above all you see and hear. You judge me and hide behind a false piety. Ever hear of the three monkeys?

Pete

 

[Livelystone]

Did Jesus or the apostles teach healing or simple practice it? Healing confirms the preached word. It's a gift which cannot be taught; it is received and then practiced. Freely receive, freely give.

Pete

Awesome!

 

[revpete]

They preached the good news, healing, deliverance, provision, fellowship with God.

To be saved means to be made every whit whole

Are you every whit whole, body soul and spirit? Remember, soul is defined as, mind will and emotions. You never have a bad thought, never a wrong word? Of course you do! Yes, we are perfect in The Father's sight because of the imputed righteousness of Christ but we are still a work in progress body, soul and spirit.

Pete

 

[andyc]

Yes, we are dealing with man receiving but who is it that makes him able to receive? No one can come to Me except The Father who sent Me draw them.

This is talking about the initial drawing unto salvation. It doesn't apply to us coming to God with a need. Those who are born again shouldn't need to be drawn.

God does indeed have foreknowledge of all things because He orders all things after the council of His own will. Jesus clearly teaches that all that The Father has given Him (past tense) will come to Him and He will raise them up on the last day. This clearly teaches the doctrine of the elect.

Those who hearts are ready to receive, will receive.

I am not the one with his eyes on people. It was you who stated that there are believers who are not living or have lived as they should/could because of their failure to grasp healing or claim it. All I did was site well known Christians who lived with sickness and disability.

If people were / are sick, it should not negate the promises in scripture. Are you going to cast out the word in favor of other peoples experiences, or your own?

Remember when the disciples couldn't cast a demon out of boy?
Jesus response wasn't, "sometimes its God's will for people to suffer".

You say we should not judge and yet you judge me by saying that I have unbelief and humanistic sympathies. I think you mean that you will elevate your interpretation of God's Word above all you see and hear. You judge me and hide behind a false piety. Ever hear of the three monkeys?

Pete

No.....we do not judge people who are sick. When Christians are sick, we do not hit them of the head criticizing their faith. However, we must also be very strict when it comes to humanistic sympathy trying to rob us of the promises we see in the word.
It is the devil who steals the seed before it can take root and produce a harvest. If I am seeking healing with my whole heart, and clinging to promises in the word, if someone like you comes along and pours cold water on the promise I'm standing on, I would have to be aggressive to rebuke that. It's not necessarily judging you, it's deactivating the negative words spoken by you that is discouraging me. Understand?

 

[Livelystone]

No one can grasp healing or claim it, they are both part of the grace available to us through faith.

However, more than faith being how much a person believes in God, it is how much they believe in God is the truth versus how much they believe about Jesus and God is not the truth. This cannot be overstated!

Persons not worshipping God in Spirit and in truth are not in a favorable position to have their prayers answered with miracles from above (not putting aside that God is sovereign and has mercy on whom He will and not by our will).

We all start out with the same measure of faith AKA the seed that is Christ in us. As long as this seed if fed the truth it will continue to grow in knowledge and in faith because faith coming from hearing the Word of God but not from hearing the doctrines of men about God.

The foundation of the truth of Christ in us is listed in He.6:1-2. If one has those doctrines correct in their hearts and mind, their faith is in the truth of God and not the lies on men who claim to know about the things of God.

These persons are the most likely to have their requests for healing as well as other petitions answered in a favorable manner. Persons with true faith do witness miracles and will continue to do so

What must not be lost sight of is even though miracles benefit us, they are always to glorify God rather than us.

 

[revpete]

This is talking about the initial drawing unto salvation. It doesn't apply to us coming to God with a need. Those who are born again shouldn't need to be drawn.



Those who hearts are ready to receive, will receive.



If people were / are sick, it should not negate the promises in scripture. Are you going to cast out the word in favor of other peoples experiences, or your own?

Remember when the disciples couldn't cast a demon out of boy?
Jesus response wasn't, "sometimes its God's will for people to suffer".



No.....we do not judge people who are sick. When Christians are sick, we do not hit them of the head criticizing their faith. However, we must also be very strict when it comes to humanistic sympathy trying to rob us of the promises we see in the word.
It is the devil who steals the seed before it can take root and produce a harvest. If I am seeking healing with my whole heart, and clinging to promises in the word, if someone like you comes along and pours cold water on the promise I'm standing on, I would have to be aggressive to rebuke that. It's not necessarily judging you, it's deactivating the negative words spoken by you that is discouraging me. Understand?

I would never pour cold water on someone's faith (you judge me again). I have been healed twice myself, once from insulin dependent diabetes and once from gall stones. Each time I claimed nothing! The Lord graciously gave me the revelation that he would heal me and the faith to believe it. I am healed by His Sovereign grace alone.

Deactivating negative words. I'm sorry but that's not possible. Look, when The Lord gave me His revelation that He was going to heal me, many tried to plant seeds of doubt but once the revelation comes from God His Word never returns void but always accomplishes the purpose God sent it for. Understand?

God knows the end from the beginning. If anyone's healing depended on their faith alone then no one would be healed.

The parable of the sower where the devil steals the word applies to those who never really received it. If they did they would bring forth fruit as Jesus says. Many hear the call (the word) but few are chosen.

Pete

 

[Totton Linnet]

Are you every whit whole, body soul and spirit? Remember, soul is defined as, mind will and emotions. You never have a bad thought, never a wrong word? Of course you do! Yes, we are perfect in The Father's sight because of the imputed righteousness of Christ but we are still a work in progress body, soul and spirit.

Pete ��

Look what are you grumbling about?

Of certain that Jesus healed the scripture records they were made every whit whole....praise God, you have been healed. Now [I am sure] you want others to be healed.

The faith to be healed that came to YOU must come to them, it won't come to them apart from God's word......you say personal revelation. That will just throw people into the sublime infinity.

Share your testimony, share the scriptures...put out your hand and touch people praying.

 

[andyc]

I would never pour cold water on someone's faith (you judge me again).

You can't say that. It is very easy for anyone to say something from their own perspective, and miss God. If God speaks to someone, it's very easy to meddle in the affair by offering what we think is wisdom.
You need to see the difference between me judging your opinion, and judging you.
Jesus looked at Peter and said, "get behind me satan". Jesus wasn't judging Peter, but he was clearly standing against the negative words spoken out of Peter's mouth, that satan was seeking to use.

Likewise, if healing truly is in the atonement, then this is a wonderful promise to claim by faith. However, if you stand against this promise, your negative perspective would be discouraging to someone standing on the promise, even though you would see yourself as trying to present a more balanced view from scripture.

I have been healed twice myself, once from insulin dependent diabetes and once from gall stones. Each time I claimed nothing! The Lord graciously gave me the revelation that he would heal me and the faith to believe it. I am healed by His Sovereign grace alone.

That's great. You took the word and believed. To be honest though, you shouldn't have needed to have been told outside of what is written in scripture. It doesn't get more sovereign than that.
Maybe the reason God told you that he was going to heal you, was because he knew you would not have believed what the bible had to say about it?

Deactivating negative words. I'm sorry but that's not possible. Look, when The Lord gave me His revelation that He was going to heal me, many tried to plant seeds of doubt but once the revelation comes from God His Word never returns void but always accomplishes the purpose God sent it for. Understand?

You're wrong, although I wish you were not.
The parable of the sower shows clearly that not all seed takes root and grows. Opposition can choke the word.

God knows the end from the beginning. If anyone's healing depended on their faith alone then no one would be healed.

True. The same applies to grace alone. By grace through faith.

The parable of the sower where the devil steals the word applies to those who never really received it. If they did they would bring forth fruit as Jesus says. Many hear the call (the word) but few are chosen.

Pete ��

They never received it because the devil stole it. There are those who did receive, but other issues choked and strangled it. This is why I explained that we must not look to people, experiences, interpretations, negative testimonies etc

By his stripes we were (not will be) healed. Anyone attempting to talk me out of this fact, is going to fail.

 

[revpete]

I would not try to talk you out of what you believe even though I don't agree.
The devil can't steal what a person never received. Who'd he steal it from?

Healing in the atonement has too many weaknesses for me, Biblically, historically and experientially. I thank you for your contribution though.

Pete

 

[revpete]

Look what are you grumbling about?

Of certain that Jesus healed the scripture records they were made every whit whole....praise God, you have been healed. Now [I am sure] you want others to be healed.

The faith to be healed that came to YOU must come to them, it won't come to them apart from God's word......you say personal revelation. That will just throw people into the sublime infinity.

Share your testimony, share the scriptures...put out your hand and touch people praying.

Thanks, DV I will and thanks for your thoughts.

Pete