ECT Healing

[Totton Linnet]

Miracles are not above the more sure word of prophecy
Just take the word as your proof of God, nothing else. No emotional experience no healing no miracle...
I survived a five story free fall. No miracle. Just strong man hehe

The more sure word of prophecy is "Surely He have borne our sicknesses and carried our diseases."

I am glad you survived your fall

 

[Totton Linnet]

"Surely" means certainly...you can bank on it

 

[revpete]

I take it you'd prefer the sound bite version? That's fine too. Let me know.

Sorry but don't know what you mean by that.
Pete

 

[revpete]

Read chapter 1-7 of Faith That Prevails from this link: http://www.smithwigglesworth.com/sermons.htm

I believe God through it will best answer your question. The other book Ever Increasing Faith, will through God further answer your question as well.

Pray and ask God to open your heart, mind, body, soul and spirit, your whole being to receive and understand His Word/Reason/Logic.

When I was a young Christian I read those books and over the years I have come to realize that God by His Holy Spirit gifts as He will also His revelation comes to His individual children as best they can understand and glorifies Him.

 

[revpete]

Miracles are not above the more sure word of prophecy
Just take the word as your proof of God, nothing else. No emotional experience no healing no miracle...
I survived a five story free fall. No miracle. Just strong man hehe

Lol
Praise God you are ok and can carry on serving Him!

 

[revpete]

In Matthews gospel when evening was come they brought Him those who were sick or demon possessed and He healed them all, this was to fulfil the saying of Isaiah "He took our infirmities and carried our diseases"

So yes healing is part of the atonement

"wouldn't all Christians be healed?"

Nobody ever doubts "Himself bare our sins" that is what the teachers have taught, that is what the preachers preach, that is what the people believe and receive.

That is how God works...but if healing is not taught, not preached, how can it be believed or received?

Thanks,
The thrust of this teaching is that if healing is indeed in the atonement it would be received at the same time as salvation as part of the atonement. Healing does not come as a result of teaching. I was healed twice, once of insulin dependent diabetes and once of gall stones and both came by Divine revelation not by teaching. In the accounts of people like Stephen Jefferies and Smith Wigglesworth people were healed on the spot and sometimes before any preaching had taken place. My own feeling is that healing is a Sovereign act of God. Still I thank for taking time to reply.

Pete

 

[Totton Linnet]

Thanks,
The thrust of this teaching is that if healing is indeed in the atonement it would be received at the same time as salvation as part of the atonement. Healing does not come as a result of teaching. I was healed twice, once of insulin dependent diabetes and once of gall stones and both came by Divine revelation not by teaching. In the accounts of people like Stephen Jefferies and Smith Wigglesworth people were healed on the spot and sometimes before any preaching had taken place. My own feeling is that healing is a Sovereign act of God. Still I thank for taking time to reply.

Pete ��

Look EVERYTHING comes from the atonement, since the fall it always has, God can only deal with man that way.

You say the same as people from the great awakening or the Welsh revival who fell to groaning under conviction of sin before even a word was preached.

But in general terms I am pointing out that only salvation from sin is preached or even believed in by the preachers so that is what people received, that is God's normal modus operandi...He is sovereign and can do differently but normally He confirms the servant and his message.

Put another way if Luther had discovered that the sick shall be healed by faith at the same time as he discovered that the sinner is justified by faith, the boon blessings would have come together at the reformation.

In fact in those still dark days of the 17th century if there had been large scale healings people would have said it was witchcraft, the devil...they STILL do today Lord help us.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The dispensation of Law is over.
Your verse id misapplied.

you said six centuries

 

[Totton Linnet]

Lol �� �� ��
Praise God you are ok and can carry on serving Him!

He was fortunate enough to fall on his head...which is hard as iron

 

[Totton Linnet]

Our Lord God, in Jesus, is sovereign, and can certainly heal anything emotional or physical. If HE so will's it.

And we are open to belive in healings.

He DOES will

"I willest ABOVE ALL THINGS that thou mayest be in health and prosper, even as thy soul prospereth.

 

[oatmeal]

Hi and I believe that Isa 53:4 and 5 is mentioned more than anyone BY Acts 2 people !!

Isa 53 speaks to Israel , to begin !!

Paul prayed 3 times and was never healed as he was given a Thorn in the flesh so he would BOAST of all the Revelation he received from the Lord !!

dan p

Paul's thorn in the flesh was not a medical problem at all.

There is no evidence to suggest that.

II Corinthians 12

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 

[oatmeal]

Hi,
I'm interested to find out opinions on the question: Is healing in the atonement or not? What do you think? I myself have been healed of insulin dependent diabetes but I don't think it was in the atonement. I could be wrong of course but I believe healing to be a sovereign act of God.
Pete

I Peter 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

[oatmeal]

Our Lord God, in Jesus, is sovereign, and can certainly heal anything emotional or physical. If HE so will's it.

And we are open to belive in healings.

It is always God's will that people be prosperous and healthy.

In truth, He desires that above all else for people.

III John 1:2

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

 

[oatmeal]

My apologies if I failed to communicate my point.

Said point being the need to get a hold of some awareness first, of just how and where one is to be looking at things from, before allowing one self to start looking at them.

The thing is, people read those accounts in Scripture and conclude what they conclude from them.

And they conclude what they want those accounts to mean in their own life.

Nothing wrong with wanting those accounts to mean something in their own life.

Nothing wrong at all.

At the same time, a basis for properly evaluating what those accounts mean, has to be established first.

More often than not, the basis most decide on is "okay, what does this mean to me, and for me, and in my life."

One hears this kind of basis is the very basis they are going by, by their very words about it all - by their assertion "okay, what this means to me is..."

And also, in phrases such as "and then I knew that the Lord was doing/leading in..." this, that, the other; that kind of language.

Again, nothing wrong with wanting to know, and all the rest.

But a sound basis for approaching that must first be sought out - in - the - Scripture - before one allows oneself one's "what this means to me" and or "then I knew that the Lord..." this, that, the other...

In this, the Bible is like a new job. It requires that one be walked around the place, be introduced to everyone, and the various departments, and how things work in each, in relation to one's own place at that company, and what is expected of one, and all that...

To simply open the Bible, read it, and say "this is for me," would be much like living in an apartment building with other residents, and concluding from that, that all mail that comes to that building is for you.

The place for this walking around in, and being introduced to how things work in Scripture, is found in Scripture itself - it is what It asserts "is able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus," for example.

Conclude what you will about my words here, but I sincerely doubt you would go see a Doctor who was not trained first, in how to look at things, before rendering his evaluation.

To expect less of ourselves when it comes to Biblical issues, is simply not wise.

Hebrews 5:

13. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

First, seek to learn how to properly exercise your senses in the proper discernment of sound and unsound as to an issue.

That; as you begin to exercise your senses through that standard, you gradually come to a place where, by reason of use, you have your senses, your sense of what's what, exercised to where you are now able to discern (identify) the difference between the one, and the other.

The Bible then becomes an open Book to you - you know how to approach it as to one issue, or another... you are, of full age...

You can hold your own.

And you can post on here, and have others disagree with you, lol

If you wish to gain some instruction on how to rightly divide the word of truth, a primer would be the information and examples in my thread "II Timothy 2:15, How?" Read what is written, read carefully what is written.

I Peter 2:24 is in plain language.

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

As is III John 2

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Of course, we can add to the information we gain from simple reading by reading passages on the same subject.

But we learn so far that God wants us healthy and he already provided the means for our healing.

Our failure to receive that healing does not put God to blame, but our own lack of believing the promises of God.

However, we can build and increase our believing by letting those words dwell in us richly and steer our lives in the direction of God and in the way of God. Colossians 3:16 Galatians 5:16-17 Romans 8:6

 

[oatmeal]

How many times did God work miracles thru the prophets?
About 5-6 years of time in the last 6k years?

Think about it

People can believe or not believe

Jesus could not do many mighty works in his hometown because of their unbelief.

Matthew 13:54,58

And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

God is willing, are you believing?

 

[oatmeal]

The dispensation of Law is over.
Your verse id misapplied.

Therefore Genesis 1:1 is not true any longer? It was written down by Moses!

Therefore Exodus 20:2 is no longer true? It is now OK to serve other gods?

Therefore Deuteronomy 6:4-5 is no longer true?

The Lord our God is no longer one Lord?

Loving God does not apply to us?

 

[revpete]

Look EVERYTHING comes from the atonement, since the fall it always has, God can only deal with man that way.

You say the same as people from the great awakening or the Welsh revival who fell to groaning under conviction of sin before even a word was preached.

But in general terms I am pointing out that only salvation from sin is preached or even believed in by the preachers so that is what people received, that is God's normal modus operandi...He is sovereign and can do differently but normally He confirms the servant and his message.

Put another way if Luther had discovered that the sick shall be healed by faith at the same time as he discovered that the sinner is justified by faith, the boon blessings would have come together at the reformation.

In fact in those still dark days of the 17th century if there had been large scale healings people would have said it was witchcraft, the devil...they STILL do today Lord help us.

Then how do you explain my healings, both of which have been verified by doctors?

You limit God by saying that He can only deal with man that way. God brings man to Himself by His Spirit leading to salvation. God deals with His Childhood through the atonement but I was healed before I was saved, The Lord used that as part of His drawing process to bring me to repentance and faith in Christ. I am yet to see a solid Biblical case for healing in the atonement.

Pete

 

[Nick M]

Prayer and medical improbabilities (miracle) clearly happen, however, laying hands on like Peter is shown to not work. Which goes with what Paul taught.

 

[andyc]

Look EVERYTHING comes from the atonement, since the fall it always has, God can only deal with man that way.

You say the same as people from the great awakening or the Welsh revival who fell to groaning under conviction of sin before even a word was preached.

But in general terms I am pointing out that only salvation from sin is preached or even believed in by the preachers so that is what people received, that is God's normal modus operandi...He is sovereign and can do differently but normally He confirms the servant and his message.

Put another way if Luther had discovered that the sick shall be healed by faith at the same time as he discovered that the sinner is justified by faith, the boon blessings would have come together at the reformation.

In fact in those still dark days of the 17th century if there had been large scale healings people would have said it was witchcraft, the devil...they STILL do today Lord help us.

That's right

Ignorance is not in the atonement, hence the reason why some people don't believe in healing today.

 

[andyc]

Prayer and medical improbabilities (miracle) clearly happen, however, laying hands on like Peter is shown to not work. Which goes with what Paul taught.

Your intent is to remove faith as a condition.