ECT Healing

revpete

New member
Hi,
I'm interested to find out opinions on the question: Is healing in the atonement or not? What do you think? I myself have been healed of insulin dependent diabetes but I don't think it was in the atonement. I could be wrong of course but I believe healing to be a sovereign act of God.
Pete 👤
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Of course it is!

Isaiah 53:4-5 Modern English Version (MEV)

4 Surely he has borne our grief
and carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
the chastisement of our peace was upon him,
and by his stripes we are healed.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Hi,
I'm interested to find out opinions on the question: Is healing in the atonement or not? What do you think? I myself have been healed of insulin dependent diabetes but I don't think it was in the atonement. I could be wrong of course but I believe healing to be a sovereign act of God.
Pete ��


Hi and I believe that Isa 53:4 and 5 is mentioned more than anyone BY Acts 2 people !!

Isa 53 speaks to Israel , to begin !!

Paul prayed 3 times and was never healed as he was given a Thorn in the flesh so he would BOAST of all the Revelation he received from the Lord !!

dan p
 
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Danoh

New member
Hi,
I'm interested to find out opinions on the question: Is healing in the atonement or not? What do you think? I myself have been healed of insulin dependent diabetes but I don't think it was in the atonement. I could be wrong of course but I believe healing to be a sovereign act of God.
Pete ��

To be fair, first, we'd have to come to some sort of an agreement in our understanding as to the who, what, when, where, why, and how - the people, the healing, the time, the place, the purpose, and the manner, as to the healings issue as depicted in Scripture.

Then, we'd have to come to some sort of an agreement in our understanding from Scripture also, as to all that as to the here and now.

As an example of other origins behind "healings."

Within the Medical world, there are accounts of people suffering from (MPD) Multiple Personality Disorders (where the mind splits off into different personalities as a means of assigning the dealing with of extremely severe trauma to different aspects of one's sense of himself).

We all manifest that to a very low degree. As when children play various roles within their own fantasy. Or when we ask our self 'now let me see, where did I put my keys; what was it I was doing when I put them down.' That kind of every day normal.

In some accounts of MPD, people have been known to manifest all the internal symptoms of Diabetes, the blood sugar, the change in skin tone, and so on.

Which moments later vanish, as the person shifts into another of these personalities.

This points to the power of belief over every aspect of one's internal systems.

The RCC, for example, has "capitalized" (boy have they) on this power of belief, for centuries. Build a huge room with a very huge space between the floor and the ceiling, throw in some colored windows, an Organ, and all the rest, and next thing you know, one not only believes they are "in the presence of God," but ends up feeling a bit "serene."
 

revpete

New member
To be fair, first, we'd have to come to some sort of an agreement in our understanding as to the who, what, when, where, why, and how - the people, the healing, the time, the place, the purpose, and the manner, as to the healings issue as depicted in Scripture.

Then, we'd have to come to some sort of an agreement in our understanding from Scripture also, as to all that as to the here and now.

As an example of other origins behind "healings."

Within the Medical world, there are accounts of people suffering from (MPD) Multiple Personality Disorders (where the mind splits off into different personalities as a means of assigning the dealing with of extremely severe trauma to different aspects of one's sense of himself).

We all manifest that to a very low degree. As when children play various roles within their own fantasy. Or when we ask our self 'now let me see, where did I put my keys; what was it I was doing when I put them down.' That kind of every day normal.

In some accounts of MPD, people have been known to manifest all the internal symptoms of Diabetes, the blood sugar, the change in skin tone, and so on.

Which moments later vanish, as the person shifts into another of these personalities.

This points to the power of belief over every aspect of one's internal systems.

The RCC, for example, has "capitalized" (boy have they) on this power of belief, for centuries. Build a huge room with a very huge space between the floor and the ceiling, throw in some colored windows, an Organ, and all the rest, and next thing you know, one not only believes they are "in the presence of God," but ends up feeling a bit "serene."

Well, to keep it simple I mean miraculous recovery from a medical condition which, under normal circumstances could not be expected. Such as our Lord healing a blind man or through the apostle Peter healing a crippled man at the beautiful gate of the temple. I suppose I mean the healings as in the NT.
Pete 👤
 

rougueone

New member
Our Lord God, in Jesus, is sovereign, and can certainly heal anything emotional or physical. If HE so will's it.

And we are open to belive in healings.
 

revpete

New member
Healing

Thanks all! Interesting, Isa 53 (one of the servant songs) does indeed speak to Israel but also is too descriptive of Jesus to write off that interpretation completely. Also there are many personal pronouns that make the Israel alone interpretation difficult. Would it follow that if healing is in the atonement every Christian would be healed and healthy?
 
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Danoh

New member
Well, to keep it simple I mean miraculous recovery from a medical condition which, under normal circumstances could not be expected. Such as our Lord healing a blind man or through the apostle Peter healing a crippled man at the beautiful gate of the temple. I suppose I mean the healings as in the NT.
Pete ��

My apologies if I failed to communicate my point.

Said point being the need to get a hold of some awareness first, of just how and where one is to be looking at things from, before allowing one self to start looking at them.

The thing is, people read those accounts in Scripture and conclude what they conclude from them.

And they conclude what they want those accounts to mean in their own life.

Nothing wrong with wanting those accounts to mean something in their own life.

Nothing wrong at all.

At the same time, a basis for properly evaluating what those accounts mean, has to be established first.

More often than not, the basis most decide on is "okay, what does this mean to me, and for me, and in my life."

One hears this kind of basis is the very basis they are going by, by their very words about it all - by their assertion "okay, what this means to me is..."

And also, in phrases such as "and then I knew that the Lord was doing/leading in..." this, that, the other; that kind of language.

Again, nothing wrong with wanting to know, and all the rest.

But a sound basis for approaching that must first be sought out - in - the - Scripture - before one allows oneself one's "what this means to me" and or "then I knew that the Lord..." this, that, the other...

In this, the Bible is like a new job. It requires that one be walked around the place, be introduced to everyone, and the various departments, and how things work in each, in relation to one's own place at that company, and what is expected of one, and all that...

To simply open the Bible, read it, and say "this is for me," would be much like living in an apartment building with other residents, and concluding from that, that all mail that comes to that building is for you.

The place for this walking around in, and being introduced to how things work in Scripture, is found in Scripture itself - it is what It asserts "is able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus," for example.

Conclude what you will about my words here, but I sincerely doubt you would go see a Doctor who was not trained first, in how to look at things, before rendering his evaluation.

To expect less of ourselves when it comes to Biblical issues, is simply not wise.

Hebrews 5:

13. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

First, seek to learn how to properly exercise your senses in the proper discernment of sound and unsound as to an issue.

That; as you begin to exercise your senses through that standard, you gradually come to a place where, by reason of use, you have your senses, your sense of what's what, exercised to where you are now able to discern (identify) the difference between the one, and the other.

The Bible then becomes an open Book to you - you know how to approach it as to one issue, or another... you are, of full age...

You can hold your own.

And you can post on here, and have others disagree with you, lol
 

revpete

New member
My apologies if I failed to communicate my point.



Said point being the need to get a hold of some awareness first, of just how and where one is to be looking at things from, before allowing one self to start looking at them.



The thing is, people read those accounts in Scripture and conclude what they conclude from them.



And they conclude what they want those accounts to mean in their own life.



Nothing wrong with wanting those accounts to mean something in their own life.



Nothing wrong at all.



At the same time, a basis for properly evaluating what those accounts mean, has to be established first.



More often than not, the basis most decide on is "okay, what does this mean to me, and for me, and in my life."



One hears this kind of basis is the very basis they are going by, by their very words about it all - by their assertion "okay, what this means to me is..."



And also, in phrases such as "and then I knew that the Lord was doing/leading in..." this, that, the other; that kind of language.



Again, nothing wrong with wanting to know, and all the rest.



But a sound basis for approaching that must first be sought out - in - the - Scripture - before one allows oneself one's "what this means to me" and or "then I knew that the Lord..." this, that, the other...



In this, the Bible is like a new job. It requires that one be walked around the place, be introduced to everyone, and the various departments, and how things work in each, in relation to one's own place at that company, and what is expected of one, and all that...



To simply open the Bible, read it, and say "this is for me," would be much like living in an apartment building with other residents, and concluding from that, that all mail that comes to that building is for you.



The place for this walking around in, and being introduced to how things work in Scripture, is found in Scripture itself - it is what It asserts "is able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus," for example.



Conclude what you will about my words here, but I sincerely doubt you would go see a Doctor who was not trained first, in how to look at things, before rendering his evaluation.



To expect less of ourselves when it comes to Biblical issues, is simply not wise.



Hebrews 5:



13. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.



First, seek to learn how to properly exercise your senses in the proper discernment of sound and unsound as to an issue.



That; as you begin to exercise your senses through that standard, you gradually come to a place where, by reason of use, you have your senses, your sense of what's what, exercised to where you are now able to discern (identify) the difference between the one, and the other.



The Bible then becomes an open Book to you - you know how to approach it as to one issue, or another... you are, of full age...



You can hold your own.



And you can post on here, and have others disagree with you, lol


Yes, I see where you're coming from. My approach to scripture is this: I believe it to be the inspired word of God ie the autographs. I interpret scripture literally except where the context clearly dictates otherwise. I have been an ordained minister for twenty-three years and have often wondered about this question. I see the arguments for yes and no and tend to come down on the side of the no camp. However, I like to think that if I was shown a convincing scriptural argument then I would take it on board and reconsider my position.

Your first point (if I understand you correctly) I feel is somewhat important because unless one is clear on that...😦. However, one prob I see is that it can lead to a degree of inflexibility. One must (IMO) allow scripture to determine one's standpoint.

The open the Bible approach and claim this or that as mine can one into all sorts of probs not least being the fact that all the promises in scripture are "for me" and to claim them is to misunderstand scripture and even dishonour God Himself.

So, do you have a position on the question?

Pete 👤
 

Danoh

New member
Yes, I see where you're coming from. My approach to scripture is this: I believe it to be the inspired word of God ie the autographs. I interpret scripture literally except where the context clearly dictates otherwise. I have been an ordained minister for twenty-three years and have often wondered about this question. I see the arguments for yes and no and tend to come down on the side of the no camp. However, I like to think that if I was shown a convincing scriptural argument then I would take it on board and reconsider my position.

Your first point (if I understand you correctly) I feel is somewhat important because unless one is clear on that...��. However, one prob I see is that it can lead to a degree of inflexibility. One must (IMO) allow scripture to determine one's standpoint.

The open the Bible approach and claim this or that as mine can one into all sorts of probs not least being the fact that all the promises in scripture are "for me" and to claim them is to misunderstand scripture and even dishonour God Himself.

So, do you have a position on the question?

Pete ��

I take it you'd prefer the sound bite version? That's fine too. Let me know.
 

1Way1Truth1Life

New member
Hi,
I'm interested to find out opinions on the question: Is healing in the atonement or not? What do you think? I myself have been healed of insulin dependent diabetes but I don't think it was in the atonement. I could be wrong of course but I believe healing to be a sovereign act of God.
Pete ��

Read chapter 1-7 of Faith That Prevails from this link: http://www.smithwigglesworth.com/sermons.htm

I believe God through it will best answer your question. The other book Ever Increasing Faith, will through God further answer your question as well.

Pray and ask God to open your heart, mind, body, soul and spirit, your whole being to receive and understand His Word/Reason/Logic.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Hi and I believe that Isa 53:4 and 5 is mentioned more than anyone BY Acts 2 people !!

Isa 53 speaks to Israel , to begin !!

Paul prayed 3 times and was never healed as he was given a Thorn in the flesh so he would BOAST of all the Revelation he received from the Lord !!

dan p

fruitcake theology
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Hi,
I'm interested to find out opinions on the question: Is healing in the atonement or not? What do you think? I myself have been healed of insulin dependent diabetes but I don't think it was in the atonement. I could be wrong of course but I believe healing to be a sovereign act of God.
Pete 👤

Not yet.
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
How many times did God work miracles thru the prophets?
About 5-6 years of time in the last 6k years?

Think about it
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Thanks all! Interesting, Isa 53 (one of the servant songs) does indeed speak to Israel but also is too descriptive of Jesus to write off that interpretation completely. Also there are many personal pronouns that make the Israel alone interpretation difficult. Would it follow that if healing is in the atonement every Christian would be healed and healthy?

In Matthews gospel when evening was come they brought Him those who were sick or demon possessed and He healed them all, this was to fulfil the saying of Isaiah "He took our infirmities and carried our diseases"

So yes healing is part of the atonement

"wouldn't all Christians be healed?"

Nobody ever doubts "Himself bare our sins" that is what the teachers have taught, that is what the preachers preach, that is what the people believe and receive.

That is how God works...but if healing is not taught, not preached, how can it be believed or received?
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
How many times did God work miracles thru the prophets?
About 5-6 years of time in the last 6k years?

Think about it

This does not take account of the fact that when the people of God are walking as they ought to walk...good health is the norm viz-a-viz "you shall serve the Lord your God and He will take sicknesses out of the midst of thee"
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
This does not take account of the fact that when the people of God are walking as they ought to walk...good health is the norm viz-a-viz "you shall serve the Lord your God and He will take sicknesses out of the midst of thee"

The dispensation of Law is over.
Your verse id misapplied.
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Miracles are not above the more sure word of prophecy
Just take the word as your proof of God, nothing else. No emotional experience no healing no miracle...
I survived a five story free fall. No miracle. Just strong man hehe
 
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