ECT God never predestines anyone to hell.

[kayaker]

cain did not get off "scottfree"

We certainly agree PJ... CrossReference said Cain didn't get off scot-free, but I've yet to hear how CR proffers Cain was punished. Can you offer Cain's punishment in Scripture? I shared with LA that Cain's great...grandson Lamech (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18, 19) executed his beloved, and relatively young great...grandfather Cain in Genesis 4:23 KJV. Where do you find Cain's punishment, then?

kayaker

 

[Nang]

God is too busy to yank my strings to worry about the reprobates.

Heh. Understood . . . however Jesus Christ not only preached the good news, but He always gave warnings of the bad.

Who is going to warn the unsuspecting, of wrong and false teachings, but His faithful?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Who is going to warn the unsuspecting, of wrong and false teachings, but His faithful?

And, that certainly ISN'T the Calvinists!!

 

[patrick jane]

We certainly agree PJ... CrossReference said Cain didn't get off scot-free, but I've yet to hear how CR proffers Cain was punished. Can you offer Cain's punishment in Scripture? I shared with LA that Cain's great...grandson Lamech (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18, 19) executed his beloved, and relatively young great...grandfather Cain in Genesis 4:23 KJV. Where do you find Cain's punishment, then?

kayaker

as i read it, the "punishment" began immediately - atrol: i will tell what i see. maybe PM later today. to bed with Prayers now, God Bless ! ! !

 

[Cross Reference]

Sounds to me like Adam drew the short straw, LOL! And, Cain got off scot-free. Your motto/slogan reflects... God is the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday... So, where's God's righteousness in Cain siring a family and building a city? There's only one advocate before the Father, His son Jesus as we both agree. No one advocated for Er and Onan, and God snuffed 'em both. But, Cain got scot-free? So much for God being the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday!



It's not just death, CR. Cain premeditated the murder of his innocent brother.



I have no dispute with the vanity aspect, CR. Abel's blood crieth out from the ground. Cain was a cold-blooded murderer. At least Adam tried to blame Eve, LOL! She confessed she was beguiled (Genesis 3:13 KJV). Do you hear any remorse from Cain? Whose blood crieth out from the ground in the case of Adam and Eve? God is the author of the law, He doesn't have to write it to execute it. So, please explain Cain's punishment, or accept Cain's acquittal based on a technicality. It that justice?



I've no argument to your claim, CR. The Gentiles had a form of law written in their hearts, a conscience, knowing right from wrong not being subject to the law, written or otherwise.



There's a significant difference between Adam's and Eve's transgression, and Cain's, CR. Adam and Eve were externally influenced by Satan. There is no record Cain was externally influenced: Cain was a bad seed. No remorse, no excuse, rotten to the core. And, Cain gets off scot-free on a technicality?



Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations. I proffer Noah's sense of justice was exhibited when he drew a line in the sand separating the Sethites/Gentile-'Japhethites' from the 'Hamites'/Canaanites... Noah was playing the same hand he realized God demonstrated separating the Cainites from the Sethites. Maybe you can offer a scriptural example how Noah "overruled his 'vain' nature"?



So, you're suggesting God snuffing Judah's two elder Canaanite sons Er and Onan (Genesis 38:6, 7, 8, 9, 10) "was after the written law." I don't suppose you can render up such law? Judah passing his widowed daughter-in-law Tamar from the deceased Er, to Er's next eldest brother Onan, demonstrated Judah's attempt at Deuteronomy 25:5, 6 long before the law. God doesn't need a law, CR. God is the lawgiver.

So, Cain got off scot-free on a 'pre-law' technicality by the God who is the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday. Am I summarizing your position accurately?

kayaker

No, but, that is OK. We will determine based upon our need to be right. However, I have learned that unless God builds the house those who build, build in "vain."

 

[Cross Reference]

We certainly agree PJ... CrossReference said Cain didn't get off scot-free, but I've yet to hear how CR proffers Cain was punished. Can you offer Cain's punishment in Scripture? I shared with LA that Cain's great...grandson Lamech (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18, 19) executed his beloved, and relatively young great...grandfather Cain in Genesis 4:23 KJV. Where do you find Cain's punishment, then?

kayaker

Why is that so important to you when anyone's best explanation can still only be conjectured? What' is your point?

 

[Cross Reference]

God is too busy to yank my strings to worry about the reprobates.

And who is the reprobate except the one God chooses __ but not without reason does he ever do so?

 

[Cross Reference]

mostly agree.

I saw it as our spirit being in heavenly places as well as being directed by the Holy Spirit nudges our soul/thought life then our soul commands the body.

An old watchman nee book when I was 16 yrs old. I am always open to correction though.

our spirit/inner man housing the Holy spirit then that directs us with the mind of Christ.

Some these nuances can be subtle and i try and see how the spirit/soul and body work together.

thanks for the consideration

Have you ever read his "The Latent Power of the Soul"? Every serious Christian should read that booklet by him. Here's a link for the interested. I would hope that everyone would at least read the preface:

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/LatentPowerofSoul.pdf

 

[kayaker]

No, but, that is OK. We will determine based upon our need to be right. However, I have learned that unless God builds the house those who build, build in "vain."

I appreciate your response possibly even more than you do, CR! Your OP suggests God doesn't predestine folk to hell. It sounds like we agree that God doesn't, but that doesn't mean that man doesn't predestine his progeny to hell. I provided the analogy that a man being a carrier of a known and devastating heritable illness absolutely predestines his child to a sort of physical hell. Having foreknowledge, the man can make the decision to circumvent fatherhood... in fact, there are potential parents who make this decision every day embracing adoption, sperm or egg donation, etc.

I proffer until one can discern Cain's punishment for lying about, premeditating, and murdering his innocent brother... then, for all practical purposes, Cain got off scot-free siring a family and building a city in Nod.

God built the house of Abel, Seth, Enos... "sons of God." The "daughters of men" were the 'daughters' of Cain from the 'house of Cain,' which WAS built in vain in his city in Nod (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18, 6:1, 2). The flood wiped out both the progenitors and progeny of the Sethite-Cainite confluence of the "sons of God (who) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

QUESTION: Did CAIN predestine his progeny to a watery grave?

QUESTION: Did the "sons of God" (Sethites, et al) predestine their progeny via the 'daughters' of the 'house of Cain' to a watery grave? Please consider the rather striking analogy in Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, Ezra 9:1, 2, 7, 10:2, 3.

Do those questions shed any light on those who escaped the flood?

Genesis 6:6, 7, 8, 9, 10, KJV "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7) And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beasts, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8) But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. 9) These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. 10) And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.​

In other words, Noah's (and his sons) ancestry escaped the Sethite-Cainite confluence. Being of pristine ancestry, along comes the ark... but there was a stowaway!

kayaker

 

[Cross Reference]

I appreciate your response possibly even more than you do, CR! Your OP suggests God doesn't predestine folk to hell. It sounds like we agree that God doesn't, but that doesn't mean that man doesn't predestine his progeny to hell. I provided the analogy that a man being a carrier of a known and devastating heritable illness absolutely predestines his child to a sort of physical hell. Having foreknowledge, the man can make the decision to circumvent fatherhood... in fact, there are potential parents who make this decision every day embracing adoption, sperm or egg donation, etc.

I proffer until one can discern Cain's punishment for lying about, premeditating, and murdering his innocent brother... then, for all practical purposes, Cain got off scot-free siring a family and building a city in Nod.

God built the house of Abel, Seth, Enos... "sons of God." The "daughters of men" were the 'daughters' of Cain from the 'house of Cain,' which WAS built in vain in his city in Nod (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18, 6:1, 2). The flood wiped out both the progenitors and progeny of the Sethite-Cainite confluence of the "sons of God (who) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

QUESTION: Did CAIN predestine his progeny to a watery grave?

QUESTION: Did the "sons of God" (Sethites, et al) predestine their progeny via the 'daughters' of the 'house of Cain' to a watery grave? Please consider the rather striking analogy in Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, Ezra 9:1, 2, 7, 10:2, 3.

Do those questions shed any light on those who escaped the flood?

Genesis 6:6, 7, 8, 9, 10, KJV "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7) And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beasts, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8) But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. 9) These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. 10) And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.​

In other words, Noah's (and his sons) ancestry escaped the Sethite-Cainite confluence. Being of pristine ancestry, along comes the ark... but there was a stowaway!

kayaker

Sorry, k. but, you have apples and oranges in the same basket.

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd". John 10:16 (KJV)

 

[kayaker]

Why is that so important to you when anyone's best explanation can still only be conjectured? What' is your point?

Please forgive me for suggesting you might be just a little presumptuous, CR. Was Genesis 4:23 KJV, Genesis 4:24 KJV just some random drive by shooting in God's Word? EVERYTHING I've ever heard about Genesis 4:23 KJV has been pure conjecture... just compare the differences in translation:

Genesis 4:23 KJV
Genesis 4:23 NKJV

The fact that Lamech was a descendant of Cain is not insignificant (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18). Lamech's mention of the mark of cain in Genesis 4:24 KJV is NOT an 'undesignated coincidence' as Jewish theologians suggest. Lamech prophesied the arrival generation of our Messiah, "seventy and sevenfold." Go to Luke 3:38 and begin counting names with God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3... Jesus is the "seventy and sevenfold" generation from Almighty God, inclusively. Coincidence? When you stand afar and grasp the context... Lamech executed his beloved and relatively young great...grandfather, Cain. Or, was Genesis 4:24 KJV just some random, out of context event? What was Cain's punishment then, for lying about, premeditating, and murdering his innocent brother, Abel?

kayaker

 

[Cross Reference]

Please forgive me for suggesting you might be just a little presumptuous, CR. Was Genesis 4:23 KJV, Genesis 4:24 KJV just some random drive by shooting in God's Word? EVERYTHING I've ever heard about Genesis 4:23 KJV has been pure conjecture... just compare the differences in translation:

Genesis 4:23 KJV
Genesis 4:23 NKJV

The fact that Lamech was a descendant of Cain is not insignificant (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18). Lamech's mention of the mark of cain in Genesis 4:24 KJV is NOT an 'undesignated coincidence' as Jewish theologians suggest. Lamech prophesied the arrival generation of our Messiah, "seventy and sevenfold." Go to Luke 3:38 and begin counting names with God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3... Jesus is the "seventy and sevenfold" generation from Almighty God, inclusively. Coincidence? When you stand afar and grasp the context... Lamech executed his beloved and relatively young great...grandfather, Cain. Or, was Genesis 4:24 KJV just some random, out of context event? What was Cain's punishment then, for lying about, premeditating, and murdering his innocent brother, Abel?

kayaker

Left to himself, man will will destroy Himself. Why not ask the same question of every situation in today's world where man gets away with his murdering another? __ and then make application to Cain & co.

 

[kayaker]

Sorry, k. but, you have apples and oranges in the same basket.

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd". John 10:16 (KJV)

Perhaps, CR...

When one perceives the descendants of Japheth are the Gentiles (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV) as did Paul (Romans 2:14, 15, 1Corinthians 5:1, Genesis 9:22, 23, Leviticus 18:8, 20:11, Deuteronomy 27:20, 22:30)... then the Gentiles were some of those "other sheep." In fact, the Ishmaelites would also fall into the "other sheep" category, another time perhaps.

With sincere respect to salvation via Jesus, do you consider the 'Cainites' Enoch, Irad, Mehujael, Jethusael, and Lamech to be "sons of God" (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18) as were Adam (Luke 3:38), Seth, Enos...? Prior to Jesus' prophesied arrival... God drew a line in the sand separating the Cainites from the Sethite "sons of God." Noah drew a line in the sand separating the Hamites/Canaanites from the Shemites/Gentiles ('Japhethites'). Prior to conquering the Promised Land, Moses commanded the Israelites to treat the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, Jebusites like the plague (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3). Such was affirmed 1,400 years later by Ezra 9:1, 2, 7 who drew a line in the sand in Ezra 10:2, 3. Again, with all due respect for salvation via Jesus after the fact... do you consider those peoples to be "other sheep"?

I proffer when one discerns Cain's execution in Genesis 4:24 KJV, such sets the groundwork for discerning who those "other sheep" were/are as Jesus mentioned! Do you care to offer your conjecture on the manners of death, or even the longevities of Cain, a major player, or any of his sons? Seth lived 912 years (Genesis 5:8), Cain was one generation older. Seth didn't live to see the flood. I think its reasonable to assume Cain wouldn't have experienced the flood. So, what was Cain's punishment if not execution in Genesis 4:24 KJV?

kayaker

 

[Word based mystic]

Have you ever read his "The Latent Power of the Soul"? Every serious Christian should read that booklet by him. Here's a link for the interested. I would hope that everyone would at least read the preface:

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/LatentPowerofSoul.pdf

actually i skipped that one I will read it.

my last read from him was (the release of the spirit)

The (spiritual man) was a monster size book

the only book i had trouble with was his (spiritual authority) book which he later repented of writing. I believe he was in prison at the time of the writing and did not have access to much reference materials. He took a few principles out of context. especially implying absolute obedience to the state as well as the same type of obedience to elders.

 

[Cross Reference]

Perhaps, CR...

When one perceives the descendants of Japheth are the Gentiles (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV) as did Paul (Romans 2:14, 15, 1Corinthians 5:1, Genesis 9:22, 23, Leviticus 18:8, 20:11, Deuteronomy 27:20, 22:30)... then the Gentiles were some of those "other sheep." In fact, the Ishmaelites would also fall into the "other sheep" category, another time perhaps.

Not hardly.

With sincere respect to salvation via Jesus, do you consider the 'Cainites' Enoch, Irad, Mehujael, Jethusael, and Lamech to be "sons of God" (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18) as were Adam (Luke 3:38), Seth, Enos...? Prior to Jesus' prophesied arrival... God drew a line in the sand separating the Cainites from the Sethite "sons of God." Noah drew a line in the sand separating the Hamites/Canaanites from the Shemites/Gentiles ('Japhethites'). Prior to conquering the Promised Land, Moses commanded the Israelites to treat the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, Jebusites like the plague (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3). Such was affirmed 1,400 years later by Ezra 9:1, 2, 7 who drew a line in the sand in Ezra 10:2, 3. Again, with all due respect for salvation via Jesus after the fact... do you consider those peoples to be "other sheep"?

They were certainly men and not angels. Which ones do you think were taught by God?

I proffer when one discerns Cain's execution in Genesis 4:24 KJV, such sets the groundwork for discerning who those "other sheep" were/are as Jesus mentioned! Do you care to offer your conjecture on the manners of death, or even the longevities of Cain, a major player, or any of his sons? Seth lived 912 years (Genesis 5:8), Cain was one generation older. Seth didn't live to see the flood. I think its reasonable to assume Cain wouldn't have experienced the flood. So, what was Cain's punishment if not execution in Genesis 4:24 KJV?
kayaker

Nope. Speculation is all that we are left with.

 

[kayaker]

Left to himself, man will will destroy Himself. Why not ask the same question of every situation in today's world where man gets away with his murdering another? __ and then make application to Cain & co.

I suppose I'm just a bit more optimistic about certain human behavior and survival, CR. There were those Gentiles who had not the law, but, seemed to have a conscience in Romans 2:14, 15. Adam blamed Eve (ain't that a hoot!). Eve confessed she was beguiled. I'm hearing a conscience there, CR. Those folk, Gentiles included, don't sound anything like Cain & Co. (appreciating your humor)... Cain was a cold-blooded premeditating murderer and liar. What was Cain's punishment if not Genesis 4:24 KJV, CR?

kayaker

 

[Puppet]

And who is the reprobate except the one God chooses __ but not without reason does he ever do so?

The reprobated Arminians says: "Sinners go to hell because God Almighty Himself could not save them!

 

[Cross Reference]

The reprobated Arminians says: "Sinners go to hell because God Almighty Himself could not save them!

Are you for real???

 

[Puppet]

Have you ever read his "The Latent Power of the Soul"? Every serious Christian should read that booklet by him. Here's a link for the interested. I would hope that everyone would at least read the preface:

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/LatentPowerofSoul.pdf

Watchman Nee is a proto-Charismatic mysticism influenced by the mysticism and superstition of China. although one truth he shared was that Watchman Nee believed John Calvin was regenerated.

 

[Cross Reference]

Watchman Nee is a proto-Charismatic mysticism influenced by the mysticism and superstition of China. although one truth he shared was that Watchman Nee believed John Calvin was regenerated.

Watchman Nee was a person.