ECT God never predestines anyone to hell.

[beloved57]

see beloved you did not respond to the scriptures that give the context that God wants and desires and gives the opportunity for all men to come to him and not perish

you just proved one of my points about you closing your ears and eyes to the obvious Intent that (GOD DOES NOT DESIRE THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH)
shouting through satans deafening your ears and blinding your eyes.

You don't believe those scriptures or understand them. I have explained them in my threads !

 

[Word based mystic]

Promoting salvation by works, by what a person does, so that is boasting !

yup your correct salvation doesn't come by mans works or his observing the law.

It comes by Christs work. His work

we receive or not His works
we believe or not His works
we repent or not and His work saves us or not.

HIS Works
our faith response
our receiving. hmmm basic concepts :bang:

Don't throw out the scriptures with a dance to dismiss plain simple words and concepts to meet your philosophy.

I will call you mr. Robot.
He will program you to Love Him and worship him and then call it a bride groom like relationship.
A wife would not appreciate her husband programming her to passionately love her husband. That would be similar to mastur
How could you call that love?

 

[beloved57]

yup your correct salvation doesn't come by mans works or his observing the law.

It comes by Christs work. His work

we receive or not His works
we believe or not His works
we repent or not and His work saves us or not.

HIS Works
our faith response
our receiving. hmmm basic concepts :bang:

Don't throw out the scriptures with a dance to dismiss plain simple words and concepts to meet your philosophy.

I will call you mr. Robot.
He will program you to Love Him and worship him and then call it a bride groom like relationship.
A wife would not appreciate her husband programming her to passionately love her husband. That would be similar to mastur
How could you call that love?

As long as you promote salvation by works, by what a person does, you are a false witness and unbeliever !

 

[andyc]

yup your correct salvation doesn't come by mans works or his observing the law.

It comes by Christs work. His work

we receive or not His works
we believe or not His works
we repent or not and His work saves us or not.

HIS Works
our faith response
our receiving. hmmm basic concepts :bang:

Don't throw out the scriptures with a dance to dismiss plain simple words and concepts to meet your philosophy.

I will call you mr. Robot.
He will program you to Love Him and worship him and then call it a bride groom like relationship.
A wife would not appreciate her husband programming her to passionately love her husband. That would be similar to mastur
How could you call that love?

Very true.

 

[Puppet]

well, nicely put but not in full context

you also ignore the receptive/passive response to The Gift of salvation.
His Work enables us to respond to the Gift. We can't WORK for it. His work on the cross not our observation of the (law).

continue on in romans for a fuller context
your one liners dont do anyone justice (full context please) the full context is repenting, believing, confessing. Ignore those words all you want but in ignoring them you ignore the main them and fullness of scripture.

Romans 2-5
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

believing on him. His work. not ours.
his Faith (abrahams)
faith is responsive action.

you also took the romans 3:11 out of context to our discussion.

continue to read romans 3:19-22 It is pointedly discussing the law.
vs 22 reaffirms what we are speaking of in receiving and responding to Gift of salvation "the righteousness of God through (faith) in Jesus Christ for (all) those who (believe)

vs 28 also reaffirms "for we maintain that a man is justified by (faith) apart from the (works) of the law
NOT our works of the law But Christs work we (believe, repent, confess) in

Romans 6 and 7 affirm that we are all sinful yes everyone.
no one here has said otherwise.
Romans 6:11-13New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting [a]the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as [c]instruments of righteousness to God.

notice the active roll we take in the above scripture. our flesh/soul should not control our actions, but rather submit to the Spirits working and will in our inner man.
please read all of romans 6 and 7 for the full context not your one liner doctrine

for you have not (received) a spirit of slavery but you have (received)
a spirit of adoption

notice the word (receive) receptive, passive embracing of a free gift.

Do I have to read your entire post on context. Can you break it down for busy people?

 

[Word based mystic]

notice the active roll we take in the above scripture. our flesh/soul should not control our actions, but rather submit to the Spirits working and will in our inner man.
please read all of romans 6 and 7 for the full context not your one liner doctrine

for you have not (received) a spirit of slavery but you have (received)
a spirit of adoption

notice the word (receive) receptive, passive embracing of

continue to read romans 3:19-22 It is pointedly discussing the law.
vs 22 reaffirms what we are speaking of in receiving and responding to Gift of salvation "the righteousness of God through (faith) in Jesus Christ for (all) those who (believe)

vs 28 also reaffirms "for we maintain that a man is justified by (faith) apart from the (works) of the law
NOT our works of the law But Christs work we (believe, repent, confess) in

 

[beloved57]

notice the active roll we take in the above scripture. our flesh/soul should not control our actions, but rather submit to the Spirits working and will in our inner man.
please read all of romans 6 and 7 for the full context not your one liner doctrine

for you have not (received) a spirit of slavery but you have (received)
a spirit of adoption

notice the word (receive) receptive, passive embracing of

continue to read romans 3:19-22 It is pointedly discussing the law.
vs 22 reaffirms what we are speaking of in receiving and responding to Gift of salvation "the righteousness of God through (faith) in Jesus Christ for (all) those who (believe)

vs 28 also reaffirms "for we maintain that a man is justified by (faith) apart from the (works) of the law
NOT our works of the law But Christs work we (believe, repent, confess) in

Promoting salvation by works, by what a person does, that is reason to boast !

 

[Word based mystic]

disagree

disagree

Promoting salvation by works, by what a person does, that is reason to boast !

so then you do disagree with all the words and scriptures mentioned

thanks
just being sure.

 

[Cross Reference]

notice the active roll we take in the above scripture. our flesh/soul should not control our actions, but rather submit to the Spirits working and will in our inner man.
please read all of romans 6 and 7 for the full context not your one liner doctrine

Not intending to split hairs but to bring your understanding a little closer to what overcoming is all about. I hope you will agree:

Our soul should be that which controls our actions with the ability to do so being a result of being tutored by the Holy Spirit whose purpose is to bring sons unto glory.

 

[beloved57]

so then you do disagree with all the words and scriptures mentioned

thanks
just being sure.

I believe the scripture, you don't !

 

[Word based mystic]

Not intending to split hairs but to bring your understanding a little closer to what overcoming is all about. I hope you will agree:

Our soul should be that which controls our actions with the ability to do so being a result of being tutored by the Holy Spirit whose purpose is to bring sons unto glory.

mostly agree.

I saw it as our spirit being in heavenly places as well as being directed by the Holy Spirit nudges our soul/thought life then our soul commands the body.

An old watchman nee book when I was 16 yrs old. I am always open to correction though.

our spirit/inner man housing the Holy spirit then that directs us with the mind of Christ.

Some these nuances can be subtle and i try and see how the spirit/soul and body work together.

thanks for the consideration

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Do I have to read your entire post on context. Can you break it down for busy people?

A puppet can't be that busy? After all, somebody else
is pulling its strings!

 

[Cross Reference]

mostly agree.

I saw it as our spirit being in heavenly places as well as being directed by the Holy Spirit nudges our soul/thought life then our soul commands the body.

An old watchman nee book when I was 16 yrs old. I am always open to correction though.

Nee was a prince of God. Few measure up to him with their insight. I also believe our soul and spirit are not synonymous by scripture definition. Having said that, the spirit of man, saint or sinner, upon death, returns to God. Our soul ascends to Him if we born again. . . otherwise, I am given to believe it remains in the grave. . . unless wicked. Ergo, we never die.

our spirit/inner man housing the Holy spirit then that directs us with the mind of Christ.

I believe He is explaining this using his own words: "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently". 1 Peter 1:22 (KJV) You and I both know we can't purify our "spirit".

Some these nuances can be subtle and i try and see how the spirit/soul and body work together.

thanks for the consideration

Thank you for your insight. I greatly appreciate it. It has been a confirmation to me.

 

[Nang]

mostly agree.

I saw it as our spirit being in heavenly places as well as being directed by the Holy Spirit nudges our soul/thought life then our soul commands the body.

An old watchman nee book when I was 16 yrs old. I am always open to correction though.

our spirit/inner man housing the Holy spirit then that directs us with the mind of Christ.

Some these nuances can be subtle and i try and see how the spirit/soul and body work together.

thanks for the consideration

As a friend, I seriously warn you away from the teachings of Watchman Nee.

 

[Nang]

Nee was a prince of God. Few measure up to him with their insight. I also believe our soul and spirit are not synonymous by scripture definition. Having said that, the spirit of man, saint or sinner, upon death, returns to God. Our soul ascends to Him if we born again. . . otherwise, I am given to believe it remains in the grave. . . unless wicked. Ergo, we never die.



I believe He is explaining this using his own words: "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently". 1 Peter 1:22 (KJV) You and I both know we can't purify our "spirit".





Thank you for your insight. I greatly appreciate it. It has been a confirmation to me.

As a friend, I seriously warn you away from the teachings of Watchman Nee.

 

[Cross Reference]

As a friend, I seriously warn you away from the teachings of Watchman Nee.

Why? I take you have read him? What are your objections that scripture might support your warning.

 

[Puppet]

As a friend, I seriously warn you away from the teachings of Watchman Nee.

God is too busy to yank my strings to worry about the reprobates.

 

[kayaker]

Quote:
Great question. Short answer, no. However, physical death as penalty could not be administered because of the absence of law. God’s words to him tells us that he gave no commandment concerning murder / killing of others.

God was guided by His sense of justice set in His purposes for man’s understanding. We must remember that Cain had no advocator to argue his case, either way. Neither did Adam.

Sounds to me like Adam drew the short straw, LOL! And, Cain got off scot-free. Your motto/slogan reflects... God is the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday... So, where's God's righteousness in Cain siring a family and building a city? There's only one advocate before the Father, His son Jesus as we both agree. No one advocated for Er and Onan, and God snuffed 'em both. But, Cain got scot-free? So much for God being the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday!

What was death to God at that point in time??

It's not just death, CR. Cain premeditated the murder of his innocent brother.

Did not Adam “murder” by his by his “vain” act? How is Cain’s “vain” act any different in God’s eyes than Adam's except Cain simply brought it all into focus for us on an individual basis, something we can 'touch'?

I have no dispute with the vanity aspect, CR. Abel's blood crieth out from the ground. Cain was a cold-blooded murderer. At least Adam tried to blame Eve, LOL! She confessed she was beguiled (Genesis 3:13 KJV). Do you hear any remorse from Cain? Whose blood crieth out from the ground in the case of Adam and Eve? God is the author of the law, He doesn't have to write it to execute it. So, please explain Cain's punishment, or accept Cain's acquittal based on a technicality. It that justice?

Because of the written law, God later through Jesus relegated the whole deal to a crime of the thoughts of man, origin-ed in his heart, as being of equal substance with the actual violation. Why? if not for us to recognize it to be a heart issue in us that first needed reconciling with Him before it could be rectified by us. cf 1 Pet 1:22 KJV.

I've no argument to your claim, CR. The Gentiles had a form of law written in their hearts, a conscience, knowing right from wrong not being subject to the law, written or otherwise.

So what was written on Cain's heart that wasn't guided by his own vain thinking, as was everyone else's? There was no other indwelling for guidance, spirit of God. Adam was made an independent nature. Hence, the reason for any given law written either on the heart or or on paper.. Cain lived by vanity, a heart law__ God subjected him to, He was told he needed to rule over, Rom 8:20 KJV; Gen 4:7 KJV.

There's a significant difference between Adam's and Eve's transgression, and Cain's, CR. Adam and Eve were externally influenced by Satan. There is no record Cain was externally influenced: Cain was a bad seed. No remorse, no excuse, rotten to the core. And, Cain gets off scot-free on a technicality?

He succeeded where Adam and Cain failed. He overruled his "vain" nature .hat is how he found great favor with God.

Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations. I proffer Noah's sense of justice was exhibited when he drew a line in the sand separating the Sethites/Gentile-'Japhethites' from the 'Hamites'/Canaanites... Noah was playing the same hand he realized God demonstrated separating the Cainites from the Sethites. Maybe you can offer a scriptural example how Noah "overruled his 'vain' nature"?

Judah was after the written law.

So, you're suggesting God snuffing Judah's two elder Canaanite sons Er and Onan (Genesis 38:6, 7, 8, 9, 10) "was after the written law." I don't suppose you can render up such law? Judah passing his widowed daughter-in-law Tamar from the deceased Er, to Er's next eldest brother Onan, demonstrated Judah's attempt at Deuteronomy 25:5, 6 long before the law. God doesn't need a law, CR. God is the lawgiver.

So, Cain got off scot-free on a 'pre-law' technicality by the God who is the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday. Am I summarizing your position accurately?

kayaker

 

[patrick jane]

cain did not get off "scottfree"

 

[patrick jane]

Do I have to read your entire post on context. Can you break it down for busy people?

just the Bible. The Bible breaks "it" down for all people - busy bodies never find the time - atrol: